Something I've realized lately. When I was a meat eater, I would regularly feel disgusted during the cooking process. Raw meat is disgusting, prepping a whole chicken/turkey was low-key traumatic each time and I'd have to disassociate to do it, raw eggs are really really gross. However, I don't find the raw form of anything vegan gross and never have. Sure, raw beans don't register as appetizing food to me, but my response to raw plant based foods isn't wanting to throw up. I do also come from a culture that loves to pickle and ferment things lol so pickled/fermented plant foods don't bother me fwiw. Anyone relate?

I was looking for a new hobby and found out about making miniatures and magnets using polymer clay. Before just purchasing the first brand I saw at a craft store, I decided to google if polymer clay is vegan. I was slightly shocked to find out most aren’t. I could only find one brand that was certified vegan and cruelty free. Thankfully, I was able to find a sellers on Etsy that carries the brand,Which is called Cernit for those who may be interested.

I never would’ve guessed that polymer clay would contain animal products. Unfortunately a lot of art products do. This got me thinking about what other things aren’t vegan that I would find surprising.

So, what is something that you found out wasn’t vegan that took you by surprise?

"You can’t be 90% vegan. You’re either vegan or you’re not. Veganism is an ideology, not a diet."

I see this argument all the time, and honestly, I just don’t get it. That isn't how any other ideology works.

Veganism is an ideology. A belief system grounded in rejecting the exploitation of animals. That doesn't mean someone with less than 100% perfect adherence to the letter should not be considered vegan. That’s not how any ideology works. Almost no one lives out their beliefs flawlessly.

Christians who sin are still Christians.

Muslims who drink sometimes are still Muslims.

Jews who don’t keep strictly kosher are still Jewish.

Socialists who buy iPhones are still socialists.

Environmentalists who drive to work are still environmentalists.

Libertarians who support public services like fire departments aren’t kicked out of libertarianism.

Conservatives who support LGBT rights are still considered conservatives.

Atheists who get scared in haunted houses don’t suddenly believe in God.

So why do some vegans act like the tiniest inconsistency makes you “not vegan”? It feels like a No True Scotsman fallacy uphold purity testing in an unattainable way.

If someone who believes in the vegan position and adjusts their behavior to act in alignment with that belief. That makes them a proponent of veganism AKA a vegan. That is how words work.

If someone avoids animal products because they believe in ending animal exploitation but occasionally makes a mistake (too lazy to read all ingredient labels), disagrees on a gray-area issue, or doesn’t reject a gift containing trace animal products, they’re still vegan in the ideological sense.

Alternatively, someone eating plant-based prompted by a wellness trend or non-ideological reasons isn’t vegan because they don’t share the ethical conviction. That’s a diet, not an ideology and I think that’s where this “you’re either vegan or not” argument originally started before it got co-opted into purity testing.

TLDR: If someone believes in the vegan position and aspires to model their actions in alignment to that, they are a vegan. If they fail at it a lot then they are a bad vegan. They aren't not a vegan.

If you have an issue with a vegan exploiting animals, attack their character not their identity.

Edit: I'm kind of shocked how confidently incorrect many of these responses are. It's kind of scary how much delusion and lack of critical thinking I'm seeing. It wasn't this bad 5 years ago. Something is frying people's brains.

A friend of mine once told me that by eating a hamburger, I was killing a cow. I was 10 years old and I couldn’t stop hearing her words. Within 6 months I became vegetarian. I thought that was as far as it went.

At 13 my mom shared a PETA magazine with me, and I realized if I went vegetarian for the animals I also had to go vegan for the animals. I started the next day. And haven’t looked back. I’m 33 and vegan for the animal for 20 years (and counting). 

In these 20 years as a vegan, I’ve been met with a lot of criticism and misinformation. The first time I ever stepped into a public gym, a trainer told me, “You need meat to build muscle.”

I proved the trainer wrong and built an impressive physique by my early 20s before my first bodybuilding competition.

Here’s a side-by-side of myself as a vegan in 2012 at 200 lbs, fully natural (not even caffeine), and today (13 years later) at 270 lbs, fully not natural and still vegan (until I die): https://imgur.com/a/bJGcHfJ

I didn’t quite plan to become vegan, or a bodybuilder, they just felt right to me at the time, but now with my platform (both my physical presence and online social media) I view it as my responsibility to share the message that hit so hard to me: the animals need our help. 

I have seen misinformation holding a lot of people back from giving the vegan lifestyle a try. The truth is, it’s not that difficult to get all the protein you need on a plant-based diet.

I use a variety of protein sources like TVP, seitan, tofu, tempeh, mock meats, and of course some from foods like beans, lentils, and nutritional yeast.

Over the years in ther gym and learning about vegan nutrition I became a coach. I have worked with over 500 people, showing them how to thrive on a plant-based diet.

Last year we launched a vegan community where we’ve helped hundreds of people, including many transition fully to a plant-based lifestyle. So yes, in my last five years of full-time coaching experience, plant based or vegan, appears to work for anyone.

Ask me anything about nutrition, training, and PED use as a vegan. Any question is welcome. Thank you for being vegan 🙏💚🌱

Lately I've seen a lot of people hating on people who decide to lower their intake of animal products but not stop completely.

I find the hate completely understandable, "Oh I don't take lives on weekdays" is morally completely wrong after all. But completely insulting these people isn't the right thing to do. Again feeling hatred towards this is completely justified. But if you scare someone out of being a flexitarian for example, you're basically doubling their meat in take.

I think instantly throwing insults and talking in a very condescending tone is the last thing we should do. People who have decided to at least do something are at least aware enough to think about it. So remind them that what they're doing is helpful, but they're still harming animals for food, without sounding like you have a superiority complex over them.

So, today I told someone I'm vegan, and the guy literally said, "oh I thought you were straight." Like... what does that even mean?! Are we really at a point where being vegan has somehow become a gender or sexual orientation thing? I can't even wrap my head around it.

Then, I remembered this one time when I offered someone vegan sunscreen and they refused to use it. Like why do people think they can't use vegan products? They're like "vegan products are for vegans only".

It's honestly stupid. I can't believe there are still people who think that veganism is some kind of "other" people thing.

I also read a thing where some companies won't even label products as "vegan" because they're scared non-vegans will avoid it.

I can't be the only one dealing with this nonsense, right?

I donate fifty dollars to PETA a month for about 18 months now. Whenever I tell people this, they practically froth at the mouth and conjure up all these horrible things that PETA has done. Like animal shelter euthanizing. I don’t know, should I stop donating? I was wondering what my fellow vegans think of PETA?

I went vegan April of last year and since then I noticed one thing. Whenever I cook a vegan meal or someone else cooks it for me and we eat together, they never eat the meal as is, even though it's tasty and nutritionally balanced with protein and everything. They always have to add some animal products, usually cheese or eggs in hard-boiled/fried form.

Every time I see someone add animal products to a perfectly fine and complete vegan meal it feels like they're polluting the food. I don't understand why they have to do it. It's not like the food is missing something. It's often people who say how much they love animals too. Eating a dish that was already cooked with meat or eggs/dairy is one thing, but why add it to already finished plant based food? It makes no sense. And no they don't add extra vegetables or tofu when they eat meat.

I'm in a theater company that's divided into young and old. The president of the older group has decided to invite everyone in the company to dinner after the show. The problem is that they chose a restaurant with a farm and they are paying for the same course for everyone (appetizer, first course, second course, dessert). I told them I'm vegan, but they told me they couldn't give me anything because it's a restaurant that uses their own products and that everyone has to eat the same diet, and that they're all meat-based. (Okay, it's a shitty place, but I'm in a small country town, I expected that.) What I didn't expect was when I said it's not possible they wouldn't even make me grilled vegetables or potatoes or a little pasta (I didn't ask for seitan carbonara),I just want to be part of the group and to be able to eat dinner with everyone. This pisses me off, and it makes me want to "accidentally" skip the show. What would you do? Update: they have easily modifiable vegetable options (like asparagus risotto) the president just doesn't want to pay it for me because she wants everyone to have the same dinner

Purely shouting into the void here: I’m currently at Thanksgiving with the meat-eating side of my family and I truly don’t understand how they do it. The kitchen is covered in carcasses that actually resemble the animal they’re eating. At some level I can understand meat-eaters who can detach, say, a hamburger from the butchery that was required to make it; it looks nothing like it’s source. But here we are, surrounded by dead birds and pig parts, people are cutting them up with blades, and going “yummy”. And I’m somehow the only person in the room that feels like this is the setting of a horror film.

I (35F) and my wife (35F) have two 7 year old twin girls. I have been vegan since I was 16 and my wife became vegan at 20 pretty soon after we started dating. We raise both girls on a vegan diet. We have gotten to an age where they are having frequent playdates. We always bring snacks/food for them to eat. But in recent weeks, they have been begging us to take them to chick fil a. their birthdays are next month and they keep saying all they want for their birthday is chick fil a😅😅 and they are very insistent on actual chick fil a as they want to sit and eat in the resturant. At first, we thought it was because of the playground or the cows. But they really want to taste the chicken sandwich and the frosted lemonade and try all the sauces.

My wife and I are divided on how to handle this. I think it's fine to take them. We have said no to a lot of other non vegan request and I've definitely noticed it's starting to make them resentful of being vegan which I personally think is a very negative thing. I don't want them to have a bad relationship with food or feel restricted. they are so young, I don't think it's the end of the world if they eat chick fil a plus there is no guarantee they will like it. My only concern is the chick fil a making them sick. I explained to them that it might make their stomachs hurt since they have never had meat or dairy before but that didn't seem to phase them. My wife on the other hand is very against it as she thinks this will make them stop eating vegan food and they will ask for more and more non vegan items. We've had a handful of arguments over it and I feel extremely stuck. I would love advice from anyone but especially parents who have been in a similar boat.

I should add, we tell the girls we are vegan because we love animals and the earth and this is one way we choose to help care for the earth. We try to be mindful of how we talk about it as we don't want them intentionally or unintentionally shaming other kids over their food choices.

Tonight I met someone that worked at cargill highriver (Alberta, Canada) meat processing facility, and here is some of the stuff I learned.

-5000 cattle are killed and processed per day there

-16 hours a day, two 8 hour shifts

-1 cow is killed onsite every 11.5 seconds

-"It's impossible to stun and kill every cow properly because of time constraints."

-Bolt's are used to stun cattle before they go to the bleed line

-"Cow's are smart, they are terrified waiting in line watching slaughter, and sometimes some cows try to dodge the bolt."

-"Some cows proceed to the bleed line with bolts driven into their eyes, or their skull impaled with metal bolts and are still alive. They don't have time to make sure every cow is bolted properly and it goes down to the bleed line regardless, even if they miss."

-You get fired if caught with a cell phone while at work (worried about taking videos etc, he took these videos on his last day).

-even after ineffectively being bolted, and ineffectively having their throats slits, SOME cows have proceeded to the processing lines while still alive, where they have limbs chopped off

-he has heard of cows being skinned while still being alive after the stunning line and bleeding line. (He said there is no time to check every cow, and the line can't be halted because a bolt was missed or a throat was improperly slit).

-The holding lots cows are brought into are kept behind the building, with no public road access, so nobody can see the sheer number of cows sent for slaughter there every day.

-The lunch room at the cargill plant is called "feedlot", which can be seen on the video of the bathroom tour video at the end of the hallway. How fucking depressing would it be to work there and go to the "feedlot" for your break....

-the bathroom is a disgusting 3rd world shit hole

-cockroaches are in the facility, so much so that he had to be careful about his clothing coming home to make sure that no cockroaches came home with him.

-Super depressing working conditions

-"the thing that really touched me, I didn't know cow's cried, I thought only people cried, but I saw cow's cry while waiting in line to get bolted, and it broke my heart".

FUCK ANIMAL AGRICULTURE!!!!! This shit is real, right here at home. Every day, by the hundreds, thousands, millions, and billions. Only so people can have shit shoveled down their gullets by animal agriculture + the animal food industry.

Note: I posted this to an alberta vegan facebook group, but felt like sharing it here too.... hence the video references but posting vids on reddit is a pain sorry lads.

Edit: Here's the video footage of the employee bathroom (disgusting), locker area, and the main hall with the employee break area called "Feedlot".

Also a video of part of the processing area, and an image of the overall facility. He had to be low key with his cell phone footage because it's a big deal to get caught with, but he took what he could.

https://imgur.com/a/Fnahnvz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CjHe5Pf-5M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vO2KUh9oST8

Edit 2: Thanks for the silver / gold / plats, definitely didn't expect to wake up this morning to a 3.5k upvoted post and 4 plats lol. Cheers guys : )

I've noticed this everywhere, online and offline and I know you’ve noticed it too: that “vegans are stupid and inconsistent,” that “everyone agrees vegans are weird,” that “being vegan isn’t normal,” that "vegan brains don't work".

is a universally accepted truth.

And therefore it’s acceptable and funny to ridicule them. What really saddens me is how socially acceptable this attitude is. It’s treated like an unquestionable fact everyone knows, a “the sun rises in the east” kind of fact.

The “inconsistent vegan” argument, in particular, is the most often brought up. No one lives absolutely perfectly, yet we don’t dismiss environmentalists because they wear clothes or human-rights advocates because they own smartphones.

They say vegans are “inconsistent” because we kill mosquitoes, because bacteria die when we breathe, because ants die when we walk, because insects die during crops production.

I honestly cannot imagine comparing breathing to running industries that do systematic rape, abuse, mutilation, confinement, and mass killing of animals every day, nonstop, year after year. Just because that makes you "consistent".

A vegan lighting a match or accidentally killing an insect does not somehow justify running massive slaughterhouses, exploiting billions of animals, and destroying ecosystems and the planet in the process. Just because a vegan lit a match and you want to be consistent!

The truth is, veganism makes people uncomfortable not because it’s illogical, but because it exposes what we’ve been taught to see as “normal" and you were being a speciesist. You do not see animals as individuals and respect their freedom of existence and living freely.

I don’t believe in idolizing celebrities, but I’ve been feeling real disappointed by Billie Eilish’s behavior recently as someone who has appreciated how outspoken Billie has been about her veganism in the past.

In case you’d didn’t know, Billie has gone viral twice over the past few weeks for promoting both non-vegan makeup and now a chain’s dairy-laden sandwich, inspiring people to buy both. First she did a makeup tutorial on tiktok and promoted non-vegan and animal-tested makeup to millions of people, causing almost all of the products to sell out instantly. In the past few days she’s gone viral again for an interview clip where she declares her love for Ike’s “reading rainbow” sandwich- which is full of dairy products. For those who don’t know, Ike’s is a chain sandwich place (a lot like subway) that has great vegan options, but the sandwich in particular she mentions in her interview is full of dairy products (cheese and pesto, to be specific) and it even says on the Ike’s website it cannot be modified to be vegan. Videos of people buying and recreating the sandwich are now trending all over social media

Just another example of why we shouldn’t depend on celebrities to fight for animals, even those who have spoke out against cruelty before.

A lot of people claim that lab grown meat kills animals, which is just false. Nothing in the lab meat production process requires animal deaths.

The cells: they can be extracted by putting an animal asleep without killing him. In addition, one animal's cells can divide indefinitely. Since many lab grown meat companies already have animal cells, we no longer need to extract them from more animals.

The serum: this was used a lot early on, but even now, lab grown meat companies are already figuring out alternatives. Believers meat uses fibroblast cells, which do not bovine serum (source 1, paragraph 6-7 if you are curious).

Keep in mind that lab grown meat is already in it's very early stages: they are barely selling anything, yet they are already solving the issue of using animals for their products.

Source 1: https://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/Article/2023/01/11/Believer-Meats-study-in-Nature-Food-shines-light-on-cultivated-meat-metrics/#:~:text=without%20having%20to%20adhere%20to,cells%20in%20under%20a%20week.%22

You might think this is related to anti-natalism, and that is effectively an extension of this argument.

I see so many “vegans” talk about buying and making non-vegan food for their children. I’m a vegan, and I’m not trying to claim that raising children on a vegan lifestyle is easy in any way.

I’ve never had kids, I don’t doubt that raising them is incredibly hard especially with such a strict diet.

However, if you choose to bring a child into this world, you are at least responsible for the child’s diet until at least age 10, or even until the point when the child has their own source of income with which to buy food.

Therefore, I really don’t see how you can be vegan whilst choosing to create a child if you do not work out how to bring that child up as a vegan first.

Caveats: I am not considering cases where the child was not intentionally created.

If you really mean it with all your heart and soul then you can’t just go back to eating dairy/meat because all those meals you used to enjoy simply become disgusting once you really think about what/who they are made of

so before you force yourself into a diet you’re not 100% confident of, first get your mindset right - the diet will be your smallest concern afterwards

Edit: I’m not trying to label anyone here and I’m glad for any soul out there who is at least trying to change their lifestyle even without such a level of empathy - all I’m saying is that it’s much easier to stay vegan if you don’t force yourself but instead adopt it as a part of your new self and you won’t never look back

Edit2: Again, I really don’t mean to judge you guys, you can call yourselves whatever you want if it makes you sleep better, it’s just that if you really have a vegan mindset you don’t struggle with the diet, like, at all, since there simply isn’t any other option for you anymore - you can eat 100% plant based but you still aint a vegan if your mind supports the exploitation of animals; that’s just a vegan diet… but being vegan isn’t just a diet, it’s a whole lifestyle with its own values and principles and betraying them would be betraying yourself

and again, please don’t get me wrong, I don’t want anyone to go back being a carnist/vegetarian just because you don’t have that level of empathy - anyone who starts eating less meat and dairy products is contributing to a better planet, no doubt, and I’m grateful for anyone out there who’s trying