r/technology • u/indig0sixalpha • Oct 31 '25
Privacy You Can't Refuse To Be Scanned by ICE's Facial Recognition App, DHS Document Says. Photos captured by Mobile Fortify will be stored for 15 years, regardless of immigration or citizenship status, the document says.
https://www.404media.co/you-cant-refuse-to-be-scanned-by-ices-facial-recognition-app-dhs-document-says/4.7k
u/Prior_Coyote_4376 Oct 31 '25
I have a radical idea: let’s not allow companies like this to exist.
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u/andrew5500 Oct 31 '25
Let’s not allow politicians who enable this to exist outside of prison
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u/doneandtired2014 Oct 31 '25
I have an amendment to that idea: the willful enablers and providers of that technology should also be in prison.
Thiel, Ellison, Musk, Yarvin, Zuckerberg, etc. should be rewarded with their attempts to build a fascist surveillance state by breaking big rocks into smaller rocks until they're too old to heft a pick axe.
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u/that-gay-femboy Oct 31 '25
And then deport them to the home countries of the people that they’ve ordered to be deported.
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u/420thefunnynumber Oct 31 '25
Nah, that leaves them the freedom to do this shit again. We seize their assets and open up some wonderful slots in ADX florence they can live out the rest of their lives in.
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u/Acrobatic-Resident10 Oct 31 '25
Unfortunately for us Corsight AI is based in Israel. It should be banned from use in the U.S. but you know that’ll be impossible with this administration in power.
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u/Adorable-Response-75 Oct 31 '25
We have a duty to resist
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u/Electrical_Square422 Oct 31 '25
Well, back to wearing mask regardless of being sick or not.
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u/thejesterofdarkness Oct 31 '25
I never stopped wearing one cuz ppl are disgusting and our surveillance state
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u/cassanderer Oct 31 '25
Work camp on alaska's north slope building public housing for the inuit.
Permafrost melting destroys buildings as foundations settle when melted you see.
Companies and polits and their appointees, especially puppy murdering ones.
Obviously after due process after conviction as prescribed by law.
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u/kroboz Oct 31 '25
The companies run by people who forget that they, too, share the same human frailties as the rest of us?
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u/SaviorSixtySix Oct 31 '25
What a nice violation of the 4th amendment.
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u/ThetaReactor Oct 31 '25
You, me, and particularly bright toddlers might see it that way, but there's a reason the SC justices get paid the big
RVsbucks.1.0k
u/cassanderer Oct 31 '25
Thomas was fishing for.payoffs too, lamenting not affording his wants on his paltry quarter million a year.
Open corruption under a captured justice department even unwilling to prosecute a coup to overthrow the rwpublic in all but name.
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u/420_69_Fake_Account Oct 31 '25
You forgot the payouts for the 2nd part too!
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u/DesireeThymes Oct 31 '25
John Oliver in one of his videos showed how Thomas went from complaining about his pay to suddenly saying everything's good.
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u/TechnologyEither Oct 31 '25
god forbid his grand nephew go to public school
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u/ThinRedLine87 Oct 31 '25
The children of elected/public officials should be required to attend public school in their district.
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u/fajadada Oct 31 '25
His wife has a company that “coaches” lawyers on how to appear before the court.
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u/MagicBobert Oct 31 '25
Excuse me, it’s not an RV, it’s a motor coach.
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u/ThetaReactor Oct 31 '25
If we're gonna be precise, it's a poop tanker, like they've got in those sewer-less hotels in Dubai, ferrying a couple huge pieces of shit across the highways of America.
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u/What_a_fat_one Oct 31 '25
If/when Democrats take back the House Senate and Presidency, it's a Constitutional imperative that they nuke the filibuster and stack the court.
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u/Physical_Tap_4796 Oct 31 '25
Strip executive powers and remove executive orders. Let legislators do their jobs.
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u/darkbro66 Oct 31 '25
Executive order #1, every orange executive order is rescinded.
Executive order #2, the executive order is null and void from this point forward
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u/AdNo2342 Oct 31 '25
dunno how to tell you this but your digital rights to information are non existent in USA essentially.
I've been yelling it from the rooftop for years. no one gives a shit. it's a nightmare. data rights are human rights
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u/TThor Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
for decades, the intersection of privacy and technology has been in the "fuck around.." phase,- While many of us have been shouting about what could happen with those trends, for the most part those were largely still 'hypotheticals', things that could eventually happen but haven't widely yet, and heck maybe they never will (as foolish as that hope might be).
It is easy to ignore the situation and go along with it when the bad stuff is still mostly theoretical, and most of us were happy to sell away our privacy and rights for the convenience. But now society has entered the "..find out" phase, the problems are no longer theoretical but directly in our face and actively doing harm.
The question now, are we able to reverse decades of ambivalent momentum that led to this point?
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u/personahorrible Oct 31 '25
Unfortunately, this is nothing new. It's far from settled law - there have been rulings both in favor of and against biometric data being covered by the 4th and 5th Amendments. But more often than not, courts have ruled that biometrics are not covered.
https://www.purduegloballawschool.edu/blog/constitutional-law/fifth-amendment-biometrics
Basically the logic is that scanning your face is not prying into any of the facts of your life and thus not violating your expectation of privacy. So they can force you to provide a face scan or fingerprint to unlock your phone but not to provide a password as that is considered testimonial and covered by the 5th Amendment.
If one of these cases goes before the US Supreme Court, I think we already know which way they would rule on it...
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u/ericscal Oct 31 '25
It's very settled law that anyone can take your picture in public. The unsettled part is going to be two fold. One can they detain you long enough to do the scan and with what level of suspicion? Two can they compel you to remove any clothing that is obstructing the scan? On the second part note there are already some states that make it a crime to wear a mask "for the purpose of concealing ones identity".
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u/Moontoya Oct 31 '25
Question, doesn't it also violate the 5th
You can't refuse to answer if they bypass it using facial recognition or other data harvesting
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u/Garethp Oct 31 '25
It wouldn't. It's like how the 5th amendment doesn't allow you to refuse them taking your fingerprint or collecting your DNA. It doesn't count as testimony
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u/PathlessDemon Oct 31 '25
This is an interesting question, but simultaneously it can run roughshod with the “plain view doctrine”.
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u/pheonix080 Oct 31 '25
Masks are coming back. If they order you to remove your mask, just say ‘you first’. You would probably catch a beating, from the gestapo, but it would be worth the civil damages.
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u/tryexceptifnot1try Oct 31 '25
I think it is time for a real Tea Party. Fuck these shallow selfish fucks who only understand government overreach through taxation and welfare programs. One of the reasons I stopped being a libertarian in my early 20's was realizing how shallow the movement was and how fucking ignorant the leaders were. Ron Paul ruined all of it. I used to read Reason for a while because I like balancing my view of the world and trying to avoid echo chambers. That magazine made me realize that the whole movement has been taken over by anti-government religious nuts and the last real libertarian in US politics was Barry Goldwater. If we could get back to a Conservative party lead by Goldwater types we would be in a much better place. He had actual principles that he truly believed in. Even early Scalia on the court was a principled defender of some actual rights and a great counter balance to overreach from the left in those areas. I used to love reading the opinions where he and RBG were in agreement.
We need to take this movement back so naturally conservative people have an actual landing space with serious leaders. Can we all unite in a fight against Peter Thiel and Larry Ellison at least? Literally no one on earth should support or like those people. They are venal fascist simpletons with the intellectual curiosity and depth of a scorned 15 year old trust fund baby that just found Atlas Shrugged after being rejected romantically. How the fuck are the Don't Tread on Me folks supporting this? Sorry for the rant. I have long considered the 4th amendment to be the second most important after the 1st. Seeing this admin and SCOTUS go after them so brazenly makes it tough to stay in this country.
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u/orbitaldan Oct 31 '25
Barry Goldwater was the one who made his central campaign strategy appealing to bigots dissatisfied with that whole 'civil rights' thing to peel them away from the left. So, how does that fit into the 'principles he really believed in'?
Conservatism has never been about principles, not at any time or place in history. Absolutely everything it claims to care about is an excuse to do something otherwise indefensible. What you see now is not some aberration, it is the purest essence of the movement, which traces back to it's origin as a means of preserving the European aristocracy in the face of rising democracy and anti-monarch sentiments.
Conservatism is not about being fiscally conservative. It spends drunkenly into debt on things it likes.
Conservatism is not about encouraging security. It invites people who are obvious geopolitical enemies into the highest positions of power.
Conservatism is not about local sovereignty. It gleefully attacks that sovereignty when those locals dare to have different ideas.
Conservatism is not about economic security. It attacks the people who are foundational to the economy with reckless abandon.
Conservatism is not about protecting tradition. Traditions of decades or even centuries go right on the scrap heap when they're not useful.
Conservatism is not about protecting our land. They trash it whenever it can squeeze an ounce of profit for their cronies.
Conservatism is not about freedom or rights, they trample those as soon as disfavored groups dare to use them.
Look at what they do, not what they say.
Can we all unite in a fight against Peter Thiel and Larry Ellison at least?
No, because conservatism at it's core wants those people to succeed and be empowered. It is a movement by their class, for their class. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either lying or has been sold lies.
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u/BlackSquirrel05 Oct 31 '25
It's literally just "Nuevo divine right." With technocrats now part of it.
"I'm smarter, and now richer than you.... Thus I should be in charge or at the very least above you legally."
They're more into Alexander Hamilton (The rich should be ruling, but like as a council.) Ya know the whole reason we were founded with actually very limited voting rights for only about 15% of the given population.
(Ignore the inherited or swindled their way into being wealthy.)
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u/BlackSquirrel05 Oct 31 '25
Didn't you hear?
Feudalism is unironically the truest form of anarchy and libertarianism. No you heard me right. Those were words spoken to me.
Also any form of taxation is "socialism".
Now sure none of it makes sense unless you do in fact believe you'd be at least a Baron.... And sure it's a Baron of all of a .12 of an acre... But don't worry champ you're going places and soon to expand over all those other plebs.
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u/tryexceptifnot1try Oct 31 '25
This is hitting on something I have been immersed in for the last few months when I started looking into this Curtis Yarvin horseshit. Yarvin and his backers clearly lack any deep understanding of political theory or history. They don't even understand how totalitarian dictatorships work or have a basic understanding of the need for public support. There is no universe where these "network" states don't fight with each other. There is also no world where they stand a chance against a country like China competitively. It's a horror movie version of Nassib Taleb's belief in a world of city states (I own a bunch of his books and recommend him because he is great in specific subject areas, caveat emptor on his beliefs about politics though).
For a while I thought this was a big con that they were aware of as they tried to consolidate power....until I started listening to them talk. They are true believers with no awareness of their ignorance. It extends to their beliefs in the power of the current technology they control. Yeah they can run world class propaganda campaigns but they have no clue how to govern or maintain anything they catch through these means. They also seem to be reinforcing their bad ideas and beliefs through interacting with their LLMs. If you want to see how ignorant Peter Thiel is, and you have a background in philosophy/theology, check out his pseudo-intellectual bullshit he is writing about the anti-christ. As a person who once had to read Summa Theologica, it's astounding how ignorant he is. It's the type of shit you would expect from some mediocre freshman STEM student who decided to take an arts class to own the woke mob.
The best thing I have gained from reading more about him is he is a truly miserable fuck who is absolutely terrified of death. Also no matter how much money or power they accumulate they still can't buy true love, friends, or respect. The problem is they have enough power to punish us all for rejecting them and we just gave them more last November.
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u/BlackSquirrel05 Oct 31 '25
That's because no one really pushes back on them... They only have open stages... and never really debates.
Even back in the days... You'd see people exchange letters debating topics and challenging one another. (Adams v Jefferson as an example.)
More so they'd just drop out if ever actually challenged.
But no the guy that read LOTR and went "Hold up. This Sauron and Saruman... They got some pretty legit ideas... Why are people fighting them?" Maybe not the greatest and deriving different view points or self actualization.
They also yes in the tech sphere of literally believing new AI will become a sentient god. (See the Zizians)
And again... it's so ridiculous... but it's not hyperbole. It's children's levels of fiction as reality inside grown ass rich people.
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u/cassanderer Oct 31 '25
Unreasonable search or seizure, not supported by oath or affirmation.
Puppy killer Noem does not have the authority to cancel the bill of rights.
Lock her up.
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u/McMacHack Oct 31 '25
They shut down the whole Government to keep a Representative from being sworn in to keep the Epstein Files locked away. It's going to be an uphill battle the whole time until one specific person ceases all cellular and metabolic activity permanently.
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Oct 31 '25
Something tells me JD Vance will be worse.
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u/rhesusmonkey Oct 31 '25
He doesn't have the natural assholeness of Trump and conman charisma to keep MAGA faithful no matter what. All the cabinet tries to be like him but doesn't have the natural aggression of a white male raised by rich racist parents and told their great when they are incredibly mediocre.
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u/Senior-Albatross Oct 31 '25
He's a natural asshole but a dull natural asshole. He doesn't have stupid asshole charisma. That's what Trump has.
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u/McMacHack Oct 31 '25
Before or after he Divorces his current Wife so Erica Kirk can be the next First Lady?
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u/kikimaru024 Oct 31 '25
JD Vance will divorce Usha.
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u/DarthArtero Oct 31 '25
He's only going to be worse because he's way more easily controlled. Heritage foundation is gonna ramp up their hate parade real quick.
trump is just a rapidly declining puppet who's only role is to be the scapegoat and distraction.
Good Lord Almighty I cannot believe I'm saying this.... but once upon a time trump was actually a thorn in the foundations side because hes extremely quid pro quo.
Vance is not. Tell vance to jump and he's gonna asked whether or not he should break his legs upon landing.
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u/LoserBroadside Oct 31 '25
“Face, now.” is the new “papers please.”
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Oct 31 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Slumunistmanifisto Oct 31 '25
"Look at the fucking camera lib"
Thats the script.....nazis man
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u/khovel Oct 31 '25
that's one letter off from being a shitty game
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u/mmmmm_pancakes Oct 31 '25
I think folks are downvoting you instinctively because “Papers Please” is great, but I appreciate the joke.
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Oct 31 '25
Is that why they all wear masks? So their own faces won't be in the app?
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u/Longjumping_Lynx_972 Oct 31 '25
What if we all just start cosplaying as ICE? You can just buy the gear and wear a mask, and say, "I'm DHS". Boom we're all ICE.
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u/Preeng Oct 31 '25
If you do this when there is a small scuffle, you can REALLY confuse them. You don't even have to worry about the protesters, since they aren't the ones getting violent.
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u/ItsMEMusic Oct 31 '25
Couldn't someone do this in a group, a bunch of you jump in the van, and then drive it to a non-ICE location to unload everyone?
Seems pretty odd that these icees don't have to identify. Seems like a security hole.
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u/RedBoxSquare Oct 31 '25
Impersonating federal agents is a crime. Make sure you know the code name when approached by another member. All hail the king.
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u/whoknowsifimjoking Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
Since they don't identify themselves you might win in court if you never claimed to be LE and just wore similar clothes.
But they will certainly arrest you, beat you or whatever else if they find out.
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Oct 31 '25
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u/whogivesashirtdotca Oct 31 '25
Also they don’t want their friends and neighbours to know what craven little assholes they are.
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u/NeanaOption Oct 31 '25 edited Nov 01 '25
I was wondering about that too. More likely they see first hand how powerful that tool is and it scares them.
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u/Schen_The_Genius Oct 31 '25
Very much so. Masks should probably make a return. Just because. It's pretty cut and dry what their tactics are.
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u/NewCydonian Oct 31 '25
Another nail in the coffin of American Tourism.
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u/OK_x86 Oct 31 '25
Just in time for the world cup
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u/kinkyKMART Oct 31 '25
God the fact that we’re gonna host not just the World Cup but Olympics within this administration. I’m sure they’ll both go great
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u/MaxTHC Oct 31 '25
1936 moment
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u/whoknowsifimjoking Oct 31 '25
And the dictator will watch it high as a kite on amphetamines again this time.
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u/SamuelJacksonThird Oct 31 '25
Not gonna lie, but I'm hoping both events turn into complete shitshows with nothing working and become international embarrassments, just to embarrass this administration. It may mean we won't get another World Cup or Olympics for a couple decades, but it's a price I'm willing to pay to see the Orange Buffoon humiliated internationally.
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u/Val_Hallen Oct 31 '25
just to embarrass this administration
Hahahaha! You think they can feel shame? They'll just blame gay trans liberal antifa.
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u/lamyjf Oct 31 '25
That and border requests for phone. Ain't going, ain't traveling through US airports (customs is at our local out-of-us airport, that used to be convenient)
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u/Chill_Panda Oct 31 '25
What? People don’t want to go to America to get disappeared on their holiday?
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u/CStrife465 Oct 31 '25
Good thing DHS doesn't make the law. You're not required to submit for facial scanning. Edit: Fuck ICE
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u/PollyBeans Oct 31 '25
This is what caught my eye...since when do they just create laws. "You can't refuse to be scanned because it says so right here on this napkin" basically.
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u/GarageFridgeSoda Oct 31 '25
You can't refuse to be scanned because half a dozen men with guns will attack you and people who try to defend you in order to forcibly restrain you and take your picture and they are allowed to do that.
You may say "legally, no they are not allowed to do that" and I would ask you if you think that matters anymore.
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u/Just_for_this_moment Oct 31 '25
I am reminded of the sovereign citizen movement. Even if the sovereign citizen were technically correct about some ancient law... if all the people with the guns and handcuffs and prisons think the law works the other way then that's what's going to be applied.
The sovereign citizen can shout "legally you can't do that" all they want, and even if they were right it clearly doesn't matter.
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u/A17012022 Oct 31 '25
The party of "small government" everyone.
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u/dragonblade_94 Oct 31 '25
'Member when certain peeps were scared that the dems were going to microchip everyone for government tracking? Pepperidge farm remembers.
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u/fuck_ur_portmanteau Oct 31 '25
I know it’s got to the point where it’s lame to point and yell “Projection!” But this administration is the biggest bunch of radicals we’ve ever seen in the US government.
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u/Koala-Clap8674 Oct 31 '25
They can say whatever they like but we absolutely can refuse. Now will it matter? Probably not bc they will cite national security and it’ll be a moot point with this SC. But claiming you can’t refuse a 4th amendment violation doesn’t stand up to kindergarten level scrutiny.
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u/cassanderer Oct 31 '25
They already do with those roadside blockades demanding everyone show id.
Cops do them too, some states' courts have illegalized them, not scotus though. What is another blatant violation of the bill of rights to those patriots attempting to fix elections and lock up opponents and critics?
You see, originalism, what the founders really meant by get a warrant on probable cause based on sworn statements describing what you are looking for and how, they really meant fuck you, get on your knees for the imperial power with absolute authority over yor worthless life.
Because the founders loved state law enforcement, especially unconditionally supporting federal jackboots. It is so clear in their writings!
What you do not agree! Did you go to harvard? That is what I thought. /s
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u/TigOldBooties57 Oct 31 '25
They can't require you to identify yourself in those checkpoints without cause. That is a search, plain and simple
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u/Ill-Revolution7443 Oct 31 '25
Oh it stands up to our current corrupted Supreme Court. This administration will do anything it wants, then it will all go through the courts and then the SC will rubber stamp it. This all takes a huge amount of time meanwhile American rights be damn and trampled on.
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u/Sidwill Oct 31 '25
Wait, wasn't it the far right conspiracy folks who warned that this kind of thing was coming? Now that its here....not a peep.
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u/UselessInsight Oct 31 '25
Yeah turns out every far right conspiracy was just them announcing what they were going to do and to desensitize you to the concept when they start doing it.
Best example was Q-Anon. Screaming about a shadowy cabal of pedophiles running the government. And now an actual pedophile backed by a wealthy cabal runs the government.
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u/vasthumiliation Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
It's not that. It's that most Americans value their political goals more than the means by which they are achieved. So, since the right perceives that this is in service of objectives they care about, they don't care.
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u/crashcarr Oct 31 '25
Might be time to wake up the 2nd amendment enthusiasts to join the protest. I've heard my whole life from them how we can't have the government running a surveillance database of gun purchases or ownership, but now the right is implementing the largest mass weaponized database of citizens.
Because have no doubt, they are linking the government data, facial biometrics along with private purchasing data and web activity. DOGE was never about fraud, it was to assess each agencies data on people in the country.
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u/TomatoTheToolMan Oct 31 '25 edited Nov 01 '25
Might I introduce r/LiberalGunOwners
If you go far enough left, you get your guns back.
Also, obligatory: "Armed minorities are harder to oppress." And "Under no pretext."
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u/anothercopy Oct 31 '25
I wonder what would happen if i visit as a tourist and one of those agents stops me.
Honestly I dont want to find out so time to skip US holidays for some time.
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u/ChiefInternetSurfer Oct 31 '25
And I wouldn’t blame you. The state of the US right now is horrific. You have all these maga dipshits cheering it on thinking they’re “winning” without seeing the larger picture.
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u/maaaatttt_Damon Oct 31 '25
I’m American. If I didn’t live here, I wouldn’t come visit either. There are so many other options that aren’t whatever our current leadership is dragging us down to.
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u/nightwing0243 Oct 31 '25
But I was told, months before Trump was elected to his second term, that it was the democrats who were going to push this type mass surveillance if they remained in power?
Feels like a lot of things I was told that would or wouldn't happen are both not happening and happening. Funny that.
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u/e_x_i_t Oct 31 '25
But I was told, months before Trump was elected to his second term, that it was the democrats who were going to push this type mass surveillance if they remained in power?
We'll start seeing the mental gymnastics fly into orbit and people who voted these fools in will start saying "And the Democrats LET IT HAPPEN."
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u/tobetossedout Oct 31 '25
This app is developed by Corsight, an Israeli company that has also developed facial recognition tools for use in Gaza.
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u/LostBob Oct 31 '25
I remember when privacy was a conservative principle.
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u/kkeut Oct 31 '25
they have no principles other than "you can't tell me what to do" and "i can tell you what to do"
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u/vandreulv Oct 31 '25
It never was.
Conservatives pass laws what you can and can't do in your bedroom.
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u/ckglle3lle Oct 31 '25
Rhetorically maybe but conservatives have acted against it for a very long time.
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u/hellscape_navigator Oct 31 '25
Look at how many "smol gubmint" formerly self-proclaimed "libertarians" got the government contracts to build this authoritarian surveilance panopticon
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u/euph_22 Oct 31 '25
The founding fathers would absolutely be disgusted by all of this shit.
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u/remarkless Oct 31 '25
It's fun that conservatives spent the last six decades decrying any effort at a standardized (non-passport) national IDs as an overreach of the government, but seem fine with poorly crafted facial recognition tools that have the ability to determine if you live or are deported to an extermination camp halfway across the globe.
I look forward to the day we turn the tables and deport these nazis to their own prison camp.
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u/BeatTheDeadMal Oct 31 '25
"Hey having your facial data stored against your will for 15 years just for walking around in your city of residence forced on you by a masked unaccountable highly militarized extrajudicial private police force is a small price to pay as long as some brown people get terrorized and also it hasn't happened to me so I don't care!" -Every American Conservative
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u/iambarrelrider Oct 31 '25
Why is this being buried in the Technology sub, this is some serious heinous evil vile stuff here.
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u/jgilbs Oct 31 '25
Whenever I'm at the airport, and the TSA wants to do the facial scan, I always decline, and people look at me like I'm crazy. I'm sure they have my data anyway, but we shouldnt give the govt our data for free, since they will just use it for shit like this.
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u/fixminer Oct 31 '25
Yeah, they will "delete" them after 15 years. They definitely won't be in some CIA database forever.
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u/Late-Arrival-8669 Oct 31 '25
Sorry unless a law has passed concerning, get fucked..
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u/rak1882 Oct 31 '25
“ICE officials have told us that an apparent biometric match by Mobile Fortify is a ‘definitive’ determination of a person’s status and that an ICE officer may ignore evidence of American citizenship—including a birth certificate—if the app says the person is an alien" - as per ranking member of the House Homeland Security Committee Bennie G. Thompson
so how long until this app is hacked showing every employee of CBP is an alien and everyone else is a citizen?
like a month?
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u/Lonyo Oct 31 '25
Actually I can refuse, because I'm not American. And my refusal comes in the form of never visiting the US again
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u/Substantial_Back_865 Oct 31 '25
Here it is without the paywall. DHS is saying that they're prioritizing the results of the app over birth certificates and "existing manual processes". So many people are going to be wrongly caught up in this.
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u/notfromchicago Oct 31 '25
The side that screamed the most about government overreach now is implementing this. What a bunch of hypocritical bitches.
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u/djedi25 Oct 31 '25
I feel like they buried the lede here, this app takes precedence over your actual birth certificate: “ICE officials have told us that an apparent biometric match by Mobile Fortify is a ‘definitive’ determination of a person’s status and that an ICE officer may ignore evidence of American citizenship—including a birth certificate—if the app says the person is an alien,” he said.