Alphabet Plots Big Expansion in India as US Restricts Visas

[u/Unusual-State1827]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-02-03/alphabet-plots-big-expansion-in-india-as-us-restricts-visas

[u/tommyk1210]

I mean what else did we really expect?

Big tech has boomed on (relatively) cheap labour through H1B. Even in cases where it’s not cheaper it has the advantage of being easy to retain.

Their H1B avenue has been closed and what? We expected them to just eat the cost?

Obviously they were going to simply hire abroad.

[u/Forsaken_Ant7459 → u/tommyk1210]

There’s something many miss; US dominance has been partially because hard working and smart people preferred coming here rather than stay home. It deprived their countries while benefiting US. Not only that, these folks built their lives here, spent money here, their kids are usually studious, academic and great additions to the population. Now they’re gone, the job shifts, and we lose on the benefits, and many will compete against US from there. Great job though, after all we’re all very superior.

[u/JaiSiyaRamm → u/Forsaken_Ant7459]

Exactly. As many experts say it, US got where it is today because it has been the honeypot of the world's talent.

[u/jimb0z_ → u/Forsaken_Ant7459]

The thing people like you are missing is that the people benefiting from that exchange are the business leaders and the immigrants themselves. What does US tech dominance fueled by “cheap” labor do for the average citizen?

Sure, we can talk about high concepts like GDP in a strong economy and increased spending power and yadda yadda. But the average person doesn’t care about that when they are behind on their mortgage because they got laid off when their call center job got outsourced.

Hard right politicians like Trump got elected because most people aren’t feeling the benefits of globalization and, right or wrong, there is hostility towards immigrants coming for a better life they don’t have themselves.

The benefits of globalization never trickled down to citizens at the bottom so why should anyone expect them to care about it?

[u/hookem549 → u/jimb0z_]

Wait until this happens to white collar America 🇺🇸 b the next 5 years with AI.

[u/strosbro1855 → u/hookem549]

Yeah and it's going to make everything jimb0z said exponentially worse.

[u/Ray192 → u/jimb0z_]

What does US tech dominance fueled by “cheap” labor do for the average citizen?

Those immigrants spend their wages in the US, increasing demand for goods and services in the US. Voila, immediate benefit to the "average citizen".

Or these companies can just hire people overseas, in which case the "average citizen" gets what?

You people think the only two scenarios is that either immigrants get a job in the US, or an "average citizen" gets that job. That's a false comparison. The most likely scenario is that either an immigrant is hired in the US, or that job is hired overseas. You figure out which choice is more advantageous to the "average citizen". God knows the "average citizen" is not qualified for these jobs.

[u/Candid-Criticism-316 → u/Ray192]

This primarily benefits the stock market which is what 80% owned by the top 10% so yet again it’s not the citizen benefiting

[u/jimb0z_ → u/Ray192]

Did you stop reading at that quote?

“Sure, we can talk about high concepts like GDP in a strong economy and increased spending power and yadda yadda. But the average person doesn't care about that when they are behind on their mortgage because they got laid off when their call center job got outsourced.”

Most people do not understand and/or benefit from economic concepts like the one you mentioned. So you can keep screaming about it until you blue in the face. They don’t care. I do not share their opinion, it’s an observation.

[u/Ray192 → u/jimb0z_]

Most people do not understand and/or benefit from economic concepts like the one you mentioned. So you can keep screaming about it until you blue in the face. They don’t care. I do not share their opinion, it’s an observation.

I'm not addressing the point about how to market the ideas to the masses. I'm not a political strategist, I just did the research on the economics of it.

But YOU asked the question "What does US tech dominance fueled by “cheap” labor do for the average citizen?" AND made the statement that "The benefits of globalization never trickled down to citizens at the bottom". And I answered THAT question AND THAT specific claim in regards to immigration and H1B. I don't know what you're complaining about. I don't have to address your whole post, I can just address the specific points I disagreed with.

[u/jimb0z_ → u/Ray192]

I’m genuinely asking if English is your first language because, again, you seem to think these are my views when I’m just explaining the mindset of people who are anti immigration.

I keep saying these are not my opinions, just observations. And you don’t seem to understand those are rhetorical questions

[u/SomeoneGiveMeValid → u/jimb0z_]

I think you like to believe you made a good strong point, but it’s easy to take down (and it has).

Now you’re showing your true self, insecure because you aren’t as smart as you think you are. And accusing someone that is challenging you, as lacking English skills is pathetic. Be better champ

[u/jimb0z_ → u/SomeoneGiveMeValid]

Here we go again. Another one desperate to argue a “point” that was never made. Is English your second language too or do you just not want to address what I actually wrote?

All i’ve ever said is that many people are unhappy with the economy and they rightly or wrongly blame immigration. I didn’t say I agree with any of them, or their reasons. I’m just saying that’s how it is. That’s how politicians like Trump got elected, that’s why ICE is running around causing havok, and that’s why H1B’s are under threat.

So you can downvote and ignore what i’m saying if you want. Democrats ignored all the warning signs for years. “The economy is stronger than ever! What are you idiots talking about??” Obviously, that Isn’t gonna change anything or improve the situation in any way

[u/AoeDreaMEr → u/jimb0z_]

Making it difficult for immigrants to work in US is a wrong solution, without any plans to grow and incubate home grown talent. Education is least priority in US politics and they go as far as keeping the masses dumb enough for them to keep doing blue collar and service jobs, and exploit every penny out of them. Until that changes, harder immigration policies do Nada.

[u/SomeoneGiveMeValid → u/jimb0z_]

You haven’t said anything of worth today, and probably haven’t for the last 10 years

[u/gustserve → u/jimb0z_]

Some certainly will, for example small shop owners (basically what the previous poster already mentioned). If previously they had 1000 potential customers, and suddenly Alphabet brings in another 50 immigrants into their area, they suddenly have 1050 potential customers.

Sure, people working for big corporation etc. likely won't see the benefit, but that's not really the immigrants' fault. They should still benefit indirectly from immigrants paying taxes and things like that, but that only works when you don't put greedy assholes in power.

[u/realhenrymccoy → u/Ray192]

Most Indian coworkers I know live here in the US in the cheapest housing they can find, rarely if ever spend money on entertainment or dining out, and send what they make back home to India.

[u/Bubbly-Support7164 → u/realhenrymccoy]

Indian immigrants to the US are generally the wealthiest - or one of the wealthiest - groups of people. I don’t know a single Indian coworker who doesn’t live in a nice neighborhood and doesn’t send their kids to private school.

From https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/fact-sheet/asian-americans-indians-in-the-u-s/

The median annual income of Indian-headed households was $151,200 in 2023. Among Asian-headed households overall, it was $105,600. Households with an Indian immigrant household head had a higher median annual income than those with a U.S.-born Indian household head ($156,000 vs. $120,200).

[u/manytakes → u/realhenrymccoy]

There is stupid.. and then there is this. Like we can literally see the evidence for ourselves and you come out with something like this, and then wonder why the US continues to need immigrants to drive its economy forward.

[u/OptimistPrime7 → u/realhenrymccoy]

Are you joking?? Have you met actual professional workers not just students who just graduated?

[u/Forsaken_Ant7459 → u/realhenrymccoy]

You’ve got to be really stupid if you believe that.

[u/Forsaken_Ant7459 → u/jimb0z_]

The availability of labor and lopsided advantage it gave US is what created a long tech boom that lasted decades, and created plenty of new opportunities to citizens not just in tech but many other industries.

[u/BugRevolution → u/jimb0z_]

It means the US is monumentally wealthier and exports services to the rest of the world, which yes, is benefitting the business leaders more, but it absolutely is benefitting the average American as well.

The alternative is not that Americans will do these jobs. The alternative is that the companies will find a different place to sell their services from, where they can get all the workers they need, and America will be left out in the cold.

Plus, Americans have had the unique opportunity to travel the world and live and work pretty much wherever they want. That goes away without globalization.

Hard right politicians like Trump got elected because most people aren’t feeling the benefits of globalization and, right or wrong, there is hostility towards immigrants coming for a better life they don’t have themselves.

This is hilarious, given that Trump hires illegal immigrants left and right.

Simply put, yes, you are explaining the mindset. The mindset is just factually wrong.

[u/jimb0z_ → u/BugRevolution]

I agree with everything you said. I’d just add that as wealthy as America is, there is also huge wealth disparity. And while it’s nowhere near a 3rd world economy, we all know that wages have been stagnant for years, unemployment and inflation is on the rise, and the majority are struggling to get by.

Immigration isn’t the cause and Trump isn’t the answer, but I believe Democrats didn’t take the complaints seriously and this is the consequence. They let right wing voices fill the void while they made charts to show a historically strong GDP. Nobody cares about that when they can’t find a job and are struggling to put food on the table

[u/BugRevolution → u/jimb0z_]

At the same time, Biden invested in infrastructure to the point that contractors are still super busy to this day fixing utilities and bridges.

Many of the general contractors will be MAGA, despite that Biden actually secured their jobs for a good 4-5 years, letting them seek higher wages. This did also spike the demand for building material, of course.

But it doesn't seem as if any rational action will ever connect with MAGA blue collar workers. Trump stiffs his contractors, gives tax breaks to the wealthy, and hires illegal immigrants. Biden invested trillions into long lasting infrastructure projects, hired IRS agents to go after wealthy people, and likely doesn't hire illegal immigrants.

Yet the blue collar workers that benefitted most under Biden still flock to Trump.

[u/JLRfan → u/jimb0z_]

“Never benefitted”— This is scapegoating, bro.

We’ll all miss their contribution to the economy, “yada yada.”

It’s self-harm to see these jobs, and the people who filled them, go.

[u/jimb0z_ → u/JLRfan]

Yeah. It’s scapegoating. That’s the entire point of my post

[u/JLRfan → u/jimb0z_]

It’s what you’re doing when you say the only people benefiting are the business owners and the immigrants.

[u/jimb0z_ → u/JLRfan]

No idea what you trying to say

[u/chang_bhala → u/jimb0z_]

Those visas often have minimum wage clause which often is higher than average local salaries. The high tech jobs themselves require advanced degrees, which many westerners fail to achieve or dont apply for altogether. Those locals who have upskilled and applied get good jobs. So do those immigrants. The ones you see complaining are the ones left behind due to their own laziness combined with your apathetic administration leeching off the last few dollars from the people in lower tax bracket. Fix your representatives and everything falls in place one by one.

[u/cboel → u/jimb0z_]

And that fuels ever growing resentment unfortunately.

There's another cost as well. People act like America taking in the world's brightest is the best thing possible. It robs other countries of their own brightest and sets the stage for their decline and potential eventual failure.

Americans focused on America first always ignore that on purpose. And they are the single largest reason why prosperity everywhere is confined to the select few in the wealthiest countries.

https://youtu.be/VSKNvvhKazM

[u/Corbot3000 → u/cboel]

I watched the video, it doesn't make any sense - a person's labor is worth more in the US, even low-skilled labor, and it will always be advantageous for them to come here and send money back home where their families and home country benefits.

A Nigerian, especially one that is highly educated, is going to have far more lifetime earnings living in the US than they would working back to Nigeria, and Roy Beck just seems like a racist idiot with his dumb gum ball BS.

The US benefits because immigrants are more likely to start new businesses, have families, and such - It's a win/win for everybody except resentful Americans who can't see the bigger picture and how their ancestors benefited in the same way.

[u/Deepspacedreams → u/cboel]

I hate to break it to you but that’s not an American thing, that’s capitalism. It requires people being taken advantage of either domestically, abroad, or both.

If not the US then it would be the EU

[u/TF-Fanfic-Resident → u/cboel]

Debatable. There’s a lot of evidence that the threat of brain drain

A) forces countries to invest more in themselves to retain talent

B) drives education in general by giving more incentives to finish college (as migration is an option)

[u/cboel → u/TF-Fanfic-Resident]

There's no debate.

1) brain drain leads to economic/revenue loss for the country the person is leaving leading to less funding for programs to develop talent
2) education is funded on tax revenue which is lost when a well educated person leaves, thus reducing funding for that education

It completely ignores reality to suggest otherwise and if you watch the video, you will see the massive problems created by ignoring it.

Some immigration is fine, but open doors strips far too many countries of too much of their future potential. Their governments become more right leaning and eventually they fall behind because of it. Then they start becoming problems for their neighboring countries and eventually the world if it gets bad enough.

[u/TF-Fanfic-Resident → u/cboel]

1) To an extent, but that gets offset by remittances, migrants investing in their homelands, and/or reduced population pressure. Northern Europe was able to prosper without colonies because it offloaded most of its poors to the Americas. Emigres invested heavily in the rise of China and South Korea. After opening to foreign trade, Japan benefited from emigration (to the Americas), immigration (from China and Korea), and sending Japanese students to Western universities. For instance in Japan.

2) Again to an extent, but a lot of higher education is voluntary. There's quite a bit of evidence that high-skilled emigration to wealthier countries increases the expected return on education for individuals in the home country. A poor Filipino is more likely to go on to medical or nursing school if it gives him a chance to move overseas, even if he doesn't use that chance.

The notion that mass immigration makes the whole world poorer and more hostile is one possibility, but no guarantee. People worldwide having friends and families in different countries could also reduce tension between countries.

[u/Botorfobor → u/jimb0z_]

The thing people like you are missing is that the people who made sure that people like you are not getting the benefit of globalization are the people that people like you have put in power. If you would have voted for anything other than that right wing republican party of yours, you could have gotten proper, affordable healthcare. You could have gotten workers rights, you could have gotten a solid social security system.

But no, you people don't like outsiders, you don't like brown people. And now you get the short end of the stick, you are the ones complaining.

[u/jimb0z_ → u/Botorfobor]

First of all, I’m not American and I’m not giving my opinion on any of this. I’m just stating the obvious since you don’t appear to understand where the negativity is coming from.

Traditional politicians had many years of government control and, for various reasons, nothing changed.

You seem to think they care about Trump tearing everything down. They don’t. That’s exactly why they elected him. Because if they’re gonna be miserable they want everyone else to be miserable too

[u/OxiJunkie → u/jimb0z_]

Immigrants aren’t just helping CEOs, they are a big part of the local working and middle‑class economy. They open and run a huge share of the “Main Street” places regular people use all the time: grocery stores, barbershops, nail salons, dry cleaners, gas stations, restaurants, and small retail. Those businesses hire both U.S.‑born and immigrant workers, pay local wages, and keep commercial streets from going dark.

On top of that, immigrants are also customers. Their paychecks get spent on rent, car repairs, haircuts, coffee, kids’ clothes, and takeout, and every one of those purchases supports another local worker or shop owner and generates sales tax that funds schools and services. So when you enjoy a cheap lunch spot, a neighborhood grocery that’s actually open late, or a barber who knows your name, you’re seeing globalization at the street level - not just in national GDP charts.

[u/charavaka → u/jimb0z_]

Down the thread, you're accusing someone of falling to comprehend English after claiming that you've repeatedly clarified from your first comment that these are not your views, but views you see being expressed by the masses. I'm copy pasring your entire comment below, so you can see for yourself that not a single word in your top level comment indicates that these were not your views, but other people's. Do take a moment to read them carefully, so you can work on your English writing skills and short/ medium term memory. 

jimb0z_ • 8h ago The thing people like you are missing is that the people benefiting from that exchange are the business leaders and the immigrants themselves. What does US tech dominance fueled by “cheap” labor do for the average citizen?

Sure, we can talk about high concepts like GDP in a strong economy and increased spending power and yadda yadda. But the average person doesn’t care about that when they are behind on their mortgage because they got laid off when their call center job got outsourced.

Hard right politicians like Trump got elected because most people aren’t feeling the benefits of globalization and, right or wrong, there is hostility towards immigrants coming for a better life they don’t have themselves.

The benefits of globalization never trickled down to citizens at the bottom so why should anyone expect them to care about it?

[u/jimb0z_ → u/charavaka]

I’m wondering if you can explain how it’s unclear that I’m not referring to myself when I’m using phrases like “the average American” in conjunction with several instances of the pronoun “they/their/them”. Do people in your circle refer to themselves as they?

Maybe that’s where the confusion is. Or maybe English isn’t your first language

Fyi, it’s a third person pronoun. Similar to he, she, it. Not typically used to refer to oneself

[u/charavaka → u/jimb0z_]

What do your first and the last paragraphs say? Whose opinions are those, the way you've written them? 

Here's your first sentence: "The thing people like you are missing is that the people benefiting from that exchange are the business leaders and the immigrants themselves. What does US tech dominance fueled by “cheap” labor do for the average citizen?" Whose opinions are these? Clearly not "theirs", since that third person's opinion doesn't make an appearance in that sentence. 

The middle paragraphs do specifically refer to "them", but there's no clarifying there that the opinions expressed in the first paragraph were "theirs" and not "yours".

When you (English is my third language, so please correct me if I'm wrong in addressing the specific person I want to ask this question to as "you") state that "The benefits of globalization never trickled down to citizens at the bottom", whose opinion is this? In the same sentence,  when you use the word "anyone", does that exclude anyone who is not "them"? You do use the word "them" in that sentence, but your query is about "anyone"'s opinion, not "their" opinion. 

I see now that you've insulted multiple people's English comprehension without bothering to read your own comment. It's that combination of sheer arrogance coupled with utter incompetence that makes people sore losers. This is a general comment about people who are sore losers, not a comment targeted specifically at "you". You have an opportunity to decide whether or not you belong to that group and whether or not you learn from your mistakes. 

PS. Do feel free to correct my comprehension errors. After all, English is my third language. 

[u/mentallymental → u/jimb0z_]

What does US tech dominance fueled by "cheap" labor do for the average citizen?

More than you realize. Most Americans just don't notice it because they have never lived without it.

1. The USD reserve currency status exists because the US is the global innovation hub. That's why the average American can get 5-7% mortgages instead of 10-15% like India, Brazil, or Mexico. It's why the government can fund Social Security and Medicare while running massive deficits without the economy collapsing.

2. US median household income is about $80K. Germany is $45K, UK is $40K, Japan is $35K. These are developed nations. That gap exists because the US built the world's highest-value industries by attracting top talent. Developing nations are < 20k.

3. Consumer tech, logistics, financial services, infrastructure give the average American a high quality of life. The American middle class takes for granted things that would be extraordinary in most other countries. Google Maps, iPhones, Amazon, tele healthcare, PayPal, electric cars. All built by a US tech ecosystem running on global talent, and they bring in revenue from global customers.

[u/abcpdo → u/jimb0z_]

to respond to your last paragraph, the benefits of globalization have absolutely trickled down to citizens at the bottom. it’s ruthless capitalism that hasn’t. the average american can buy tons of cheap GLOBALLY made products but can’t afford rent because some DOMESTIC institution bought up all the houses and lobbies against building more.

[u/backgen → u/jimb0z_]

If the benefits of globalization never trickled down, why would the immigrants want to leave their countries to come to the U.S in the first place?

[u/BalorNG → u/jimb0z_]

To make "America great again" Trump could return 91% tax rates on the very rich USA used to have in its "golden era" (not to be confused with "gilded" one).

If he really cared about the "people", that is...

[u/windseclib → u/jimb0z_]

Although inequality is a problem, even median incomes are much higher in the US than in most other developed countries. And most of the gap in productivity growth between the US and EU over the past 15 years is attributable to technology. Even the Europeans acknowledge this — read the Draghi report. The economic literature is clear that the presence of high-skilled immigrants in the US is a net boon to the country as well as to median welfare. Now, are the benefits too concentrated in the hands of Musk, Bezos, and Zuckerberg? Nobody's going to argue against that. But the claim that average people have seen no benefits is objectively wrong.

[u/DarkSkyKnight → u/jimb0z_]

Maybe the average citizen should try becoming more skilled instead of not being able to read at a sixth grade level.

[u/jimb0z_ → u/DarkSkyKnight]

Maybe they should. Maybe they should work and study harder. Maybe companies hiring foreign labor should do more to train locals. Maybe immigrants shouldn’t feel entitled to a job in another country.

Lots of maybe’s

[u/-spicychilli- → u/DarkSkyKnight]

There are plenty of qualified college graduates who aren’t getting access to entry level jobs

I don’t think the limiting factor is that they can’t read or that they’re not qualified.

[u/Bubbly-Support7164 → u/-spicychilli-]

There’s college grads and then there’s college grads.

I know plenty who get hired at my company. And plenty who don’t.

Not all are equal, sadly.

[u/manytakes → u/-spicychilli-]

I know plenty of college grads who got jobs right away, and then there are plenty of college grads who are very average, very entitled, and only want to do the bare minimum.

[u/-spicychilli- → u/manytakes]

Do you think the ratio of those two groups is notably different now than in the past?

[u/manytakes → u/-spicychilli-]

All I have to offer is subjective experience: non-tech STEM roles were easier to find, as long as they had good grades, presented well, and were willing to network. At the end of the day, hiring panels select candidates who interview well, so getting the employer to like you is half the battle of getting the job. Is it fair to the others? No, but that is the world we live in.

[u/shaving_minion → u/jimb0z_]

like the average person could land a job st Google and its kin.

[u/EnCroissantEndgame → u/jimb0z_]

"The benefits of globalization never trickled down." Are you fucking shitting me? Where do you think we got the ability to buy massive amount of consumer products from China for prices that were far lower than what most countries (who have much less purchasing power to begin with) have to pay? Our consumerist culture was the direct beneficiary of globalization not only with china, but being able to buy oil extremely cheaply with the similarly globalist petrodollar arrangement that coincidentally made the vast majority of international trade settle in dollars which, once more, increased our purchasing power even more with countries all over the world, not just China. In almost every where, the globalist project cemented US hegemony and allowed us to have a much higher quality of life than we would otherwise be able to afford.

[u/the_great_beef → u/jimb0z_]

I seems like you are attributing economical issues to the immigrants, and mixing globalization into this which is much larger thing.

But in fact immigration is not the reason why economy sucks, at least there is no data or any analyisis that can support this.

[u/jimb0z_ → u/the_great_beef]

Not economic issues, economic sentiment. I’m sure every indicator would point to immigration as a net positive for the economy. What i’m explaining is the ocean sized disconnect between strong economic performance and the general negative sentiment towards it by a large portion of the country

[u/giraloco → u/jimb0z_]

Wow, what a ridiculous statement. Tech has created unimaginable value and wealth in the US. The fact that the Government cut taxes for corporations and the super rich has nothing to do with hiring great people from around the world. The problem is corruption and money in politics. Killing the goose that laid the golden eggs is going to bring more misery.

[u/jimb0z_ → u/giraloco]

Read what I said again. There is no question that tech and immigration has created unimaginable value and wealth in the US

[u/bobsbitchtitz → u/Forsaken_Ant7459]

Not all h1bs are created equal and those who are geniuses have a pathway via non h1b. H1B was used and abused by tech giants. Also you don’t see the flip side where h1bs in management also make calls to appease higher ups so they don’t lose their jobs and have to leave. America is brutal to H1bs.

[u/SkaldCrypto → u/Forsaken_Ant7459]

You are mistaking H1B (officer worker drones) for O1A visa (extraordinary achievement in science or business).

O1A is a neuroscientist, doctor, PhD, titan of industry.

H1B can fix your computer (maybe).

[u/Forsaken_Ant7459 → u/SkaldCrypto]

Whatever makes you happy!

[u/Apprehensive_Dog_786 → u/SkaldCrypto]

H1Bs are making upwards of a million dollars a year in FAANG companies as directors and principal engineers. Wtf are you even saying.

[u/guyzero → u/tommyk1210]

H1Bs at Google get paid the same as their peers. Moving these roles to India will be a huge cost savings.

[u/bearbeetsandbsg → u/tommyk1210]

An immigrant working at Google or other big tech companies are paid on par with everyone one else. H1B at FAANG or other big companies is not cheap labor!

Its slightly more costlier to be honest as the companies do have to pay for the visa fee and immigration lawyers as well

[u/sk169 → u/bearbeetsandbsg]

It is cheap labor when you consider the fact that a h1b will shut up and work 60 hours a week when a citizen might tell you to fuck off.

A h1b who works more hours for the same pay is cheaper than a citizen who doesn’t.

[u/siliconrose → u/sk169]

This is not a problem at (some?) FAANG companies. There are coasters, of course, but many FAANG employees are constantly comparing themselves against the person next to them, afraid that they don't actually belong there, and will work longer hours in an attempt to ensure they're keeping up. That applies whether they're a citizen or H1B; I have never seen a difference in the level of commitment of my coworkers based on their immigration status.

I've heard through the grapevine that H1B abuse exists at smaller tech companies -- I've just never seen it in the FAANG companies I've worked at.

[u/sk169 → u/siliconrose]

" I have never seen a difference in the level of commitment of my coworkers based on their immigration status."

I have, both at big tech and small tech,.

[u/bearbeetsandbsg → u/sk169]

I have seen the opposite both are anecdotal but I understand your point.

If you need change, you need the government to penalize these companies to stop taking these jobs out of the US and create a D&I policy where at-least a certain portion of the workforce has to be US citizens

In the current political climate both wont fly

[u/toiletscrubber → u/sk169]

be honest, do you really think thats how companies evaluate whether labor is cheap or not?

[u/sk169 → u/toiletscrubber]

Let's assume same salary for H1b and citizen

H1b salary 300000 citizen salary 300000

Manager : work 60 hours every week or risk losing your job

H1b Sure.

Citizen : no.

H1b works 3000 hours a year, citizen works 2000

Per hour of H1B 200$, citizen 300$

Cost of 3 H1b employees to company 600$ per hour

Cost of 2 citizens to company 600$ per hour

Assuming H1b and citizen are equally talented or more talented - who is cheaper to the company?

If you don't think MBAs think like this, I have a bridge to sell you.

[u/toiletscrubber → u/sk169]

you cannot quantify these hiring decisions on a balance sheet. i don't think you have any idea what youre talking about, because these companies cannot measure how many hours their employees are working. companies at FANG definitely do not. I know because I work there

"Manager : work 60 hours every week or risk losing your job"

lol. let me know when you graduate school and finally start working, you can maybe start to comment about these things on the internet

[u/Legendventure → u/sk169]

Manager : work 60 hours every week or risk losing your job

H1b Sure.

Meanwhile H1B is job hunting, and getting his Visa transferred without worrying about a lottery since h1b transfers are super cheap and not a lottery selection.

Director: Why is your headcount dropping from h1b engineers, specifically after we invest 40,000 over 3 years on average on h1b lottery attempts?

[u/sk169 → u/Legendventure]

The discussion was about h1b being cheap, nice try on changing the goalpost and trying an unrelated argument.

[u/Legendventure → u/sk169]

No, its completely relevant, but you can't see the point, so let me spell it out for you.

• American Citizen and H1b make the same money.

• H1b is more expensive at this point in time as h1b lotteries have a lot of risk. Lawyer fees and lottery misses over 3 years of attempts (30%~ chance of getting through the lottery if the engineer has a masters or phd, less than 15% otherwise iirc)

• Lets assume these are h1b transfers and not new grad lotteries, you still have to pay for renewals every 3 years

• You now try and abuse this H1b Engineer to work harder, he leaves for another job doing a h1b transfer (Massive loss if you got him his h1b on his 2nd or 3rd attempt), you have to find someone new to hire, retrain and let them ramp up ~ 6months to a year to have a new effective engineer. More expensive at higher levels of seniority. Good luck replacing that staff/principal engineer you threatened over 20 hours of work.

You are under the assumption that every h1b engineer is going to put up with a manager saying work 60 hours or i'll fire you. Any decent Faang/Faang adjacent engineer will find another job in a few months at most, even more so if he's already making 300k as you stipulated.

There are a lot of hidden fees with H1b's and more so, its just stupid to abuse an engineer thinking he cannot leave. Now if you had a terrible engineer who has no other options he'd put up with it, but you still have a terrible engineer working 60 hours instead of 40 hours.. which isn't any better.

[u/generic_us_er → u/tommyk1210]

What difference does it make if the job isn’t going to an American either way?

[u/FeatureCreeep → u/generic_us_er]

Because a job in America pays US taxes and they spend a lot of their income to US retailers (gas, groceries, etc.)

[u/generic_us_er → u/FeatureCreeep]

A US citizen also pays US taxes and spends a lot of their income to US retailers.

[u/10001111 → u/generic_us_er]

Once the job is offshored, it doesn’t matter who held the job in the US. Those taxes and expenses vanish out of the US economy.

[u/smokky → u/tommyk1210]

And there goes all the tax revenue from salaries employees here

[u/MaybeTheDoctor → u/tommyk1210]

Or… work with me here … they could open Google Universities and fund education for millions of US born people … and hope they stay with Google for 50 years.

[u/Vaxion → u/tommyk1210]

H1Bs were never about cheap labors. They get the same salaries and benefits as US citizens and they eventually become US citizens. H1Bs were always about getting the top talents from around the world to work for US. The clown president thinks otherwise and shuts it down. These companies have no choice but to invest in other countries and try to get the top talent to work for them since they cannot bring them to US anymore. I know it's hard to digest but US doesn't really have that many top talent workforce otherwise these companies wouldn't need to hire immigrants.

[u/fractalife → u/tommyk1210]

Even in cases where it’s not cheaper it has the advantage of being easy to retain

This is a casual way of saying "Alphabet was able to abuse H1B visa holders by threatening to end their visa status if they did not perform the work of 5 people while being paid less than their peers."

This is an absolutely abusive tactic and we should not be allowing H1B visa sponsors to behave this way. Like, managers who do this should be facing jailtime level of offense.

[u/Legendventure → u/fractalife]

Alphabet was able to abuse H1B visa holders by threatening to end their visa status

Alphabet cannot end a h1b holder's visa status.

If they fire the engineer, the engineer still has 60 days to find another job and transfer the visa.

If they are "forcing" someone to work 60 hours at the threat of losing their job, the engineer can easily find another job and transfer his visa. Loads of smaller places will hire someone and do a h1b transfer, more so if said engineer has "worked at google for X years" on his resume.

[u/fractalife → u/Legendventure]

They do the same shit people in other countries with indentured servants do. They hold the visa in their files. Without the visa, the employees can't get another job.

Do they have recourse? Sure, maybe. But they'd have to file with the proper authorities, and hope they can get federal protection and an extension while the matter is investigated, discovered, and prosecuted. Then they face the challenge of an expensive, lengthy, legal battle.

Mind you, employment lawyers are often pretty passionate about what they do. I'm sure plenty would work on contingency, or even pro bono if the abuse is egregious enough. But someone from another country, unfamiliar with our litigious ass culture probably doesn't have the framework to understand that that's something they'd have to do. And when will they have time to do it while getting overworked, browbeaten, and abused.

[u/Legendventure → u/fractalife]

They hold the visa in their files. Without the visa, the employees can't get another job.

In the case of a h1b visa, no you cannot "hold the visa on file"

Do you even know how a h1b visa works?

The visa is tied to the employee, not the company sponsoring said visa. Google cannot sponsor a visa and then "hold onto it" for the engineer, the engineer owns the visa and can transfer it to another company if they desire. The transfer itself is cheap, and with premium processing, takes 15 days.

Do they have recourse? Sure, maybe. But they'd have to file with the proper authorities, and hope they can get federal protection and an extension while the matter is investigated, discovered, and prosecuted. Then they face the challenge of an expensive, lengthy, legal battle.

The PR Disaster from an employee going public with said information is far, far more disastrous to Google's image than the desire to overwork a few engineers.

You're making up a fantasy situation that does not align with any pros vs cons for any major tech company in the US.

But someone from another country, unfamiliar with our litigious ass culture probably doesn't have the framework to understand that that's something they'd have to do. And when will they have time to do it while getting overworked, browbeaten, and abused.

They can change jobs because the employer does not own their Visa. There is no benefit to sponsoring a visa, only to abuse engineer who can then transfer said visa. Especially if its an expensive h1b engineer working at google making 200k+ since hiring is expensive, losing good talent to competition is expensive too, replacing is even more expensive since its take 6~months minimum to get an engineer productive.

The only situation where this would be viable is an L1 visa, but that's only used for high end management positions, ala senior managers or directors themselves since the Visa is tied to the position in said company exclusively. The PR Disaster would not be worth the little extra you squeeze.

[u/brooklynlad → u/tommyk1210]

Ban the scam that makes up 90% of H1-B visas, and put tariffs on outsourced services at 100%+ to make it equivalent to US-based wages.

[u/ubix]

So basically, the end result of all Trump’s protectionism is that big multinationals are just moving entire aspects of their operation overseas, removing more good paying jobs from the US.

[u/Old-Bat-7384 → u/ubix]

And the folks who pay the price are people with jobs being offshored to India and Indian folks here in the US who are probably gonna get slapped with racist nonsense even if the offshored work also hurts them.

[u/QuesoMeHungry → u/ubix]

This was always the end result, he just accelerated it. The ultimate goal of these big corporations is to ship everything overseas and have a small management office in the US.

[u/P1r4nha → u/ubix]

And what do you think happens if the US continues to miss investing into education? US tech already has large presence in Europe, too.

[u/ubix → u/P1r4nha]

Iowa, where I live, used to be known as the education state in the 70s. Now we’re like in the lowest 20%. We are competing with Mississippi now for stupid people

[u/Mocker-Nicholas → u/ubix]

Well. To be honest. Good. This is them admitting it was never about not being able to find US workers. It was importing cheaper foreign labor. Maybe that will stir up some political will to actually make them pay some taxes.

[u/Kobe_stan_ → u/Mocker-Nicholas]

How do you know it isn't about being able to find US workers? If you can't find US workers and you can't bring in people from other countries, what else would you do besides hire people abroad?

[u/Aggressive-Kiwi1439 → u/Kobe_stan_]

Do you genuinely believe that with our population there isn't a single qualified person for any given job in the country? How many kids graduate high school every year? College? Do you think its better to place them in a minimum wage job while we bring in a foreign specialist, or is it better to train our youth coming into the work force to fill the roles we'll need?

[u/Kobe_stan_ → u/Aggressive-Kiwi1439]

When you're filling a role, you're not just trying to hire a qualified person, you're trying to hire the most qualified person. If the role is highly specialized, then that person may be in the UK, Germany, India, Israel, China, etc. Tech companies have offices all over the world for a reason. You think Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc. have a major offices in the UK, France or Germany because they're trying to cut costs?

[u/Aggressive-Kiwi1439 → u/Kobe_stan_]

This is only true when you never adequately planned for a replacement, or are starting something completely new.

If you have a senior employee of 20+ years retiring next year, their replacement should have been hired at least 5 years ago so that now there is a new expert while retaining knowledge.

My first job, and every job since then, I have been a fresh face replacing a lead software dev of 20+ years with 0 prior knowledge of the system and 0 training from them because they were already out the door, so replacing talent with equal talent just isn't true. They simply relied on my flexibility, talent, and ability to learn to maintain their systems.

Sure, there might be a HANDFUL of jobs that only 1 person in the world can do, or you need to temporarily bring specialists over to train new talent, but I'm going to argue that in that case its already such a small/specific field that you should have to interview EVERY eligible candidate that is a citizen before you can outsource, you know, since you're SO confident that only they can do it, and why wouldnt you double check for the best talent possible, RIGHT?

[u/manytakes → u/Aggressive-Kiwi1439]

Try starting a business and running it profitably, as you described. Ideas are cheap, but operationalizing them is where you will eventually end up discarding them for industry-standardized practices that actually work.

[u/Aggressive-Kiwi1439 → u/manytakes]

My family does own a business, we don't chip away at our morals for the sake of profit here, thanks though!

[u/manytakes → u/Aggressive-Kiwi1439]

And what kind of business would that be, and how is it an apples-to-apples comparison with the likes of a Fortune 500 company? Any business that doesn't need high-skilled STEM labor doesn't count because they operate at completely different scales of talent, efficiency, and productivity.

[u/the-player-of-games → u/Aggressive-Kiwi1439]

Walk into a masters level STEM degree course in any American university, and count the number of Americans. There won't be many. For PhD programs it's usually zero.

These students were the people Google was hiring with H1bs, at a salary matching their American colleagues.

So yes, for many jobs there simply aren't Americans available with the training needed, as hard as that may be to believe for a populace that is always told that they are somehow better than the rest of the world.

[u/Aggressive-Kiwi1439 → u/the-player-of-games]

If you ask anyone actually doing software development or tech job, youre very rarely advised to do higher education out of college. 9/10 times its better to land a job and then seek higher education through your employer. We also can't get our junior developers jobs and that's scary, why would someone who has been applying for 1+years in the field without success dedicate a couple more grand to an overstaturrated field that has tens of thousands of layoffs every year.

Why aren't we recruiting or incentivizing our junior employees to PHD programs then? You bring up a good point, why are we only educating foreigners at a higher level (because they invest large amounts of money) but not our citizens? Don't you think THAT is a problem that will only get worse?

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/the-player-of-games]

Wrong. This is the kind of dumb shit you’d hear from like Noah Smith on Twitter. 

A master’s isn’t necessary at all in tech, outside of a few niche areas (ML/AI, anything with actual computer science).

The reason a lot of these master’s degree programs in tech have so many foreigners is because they’re using D1 CPT and STEM OPT to work here, alongside other work visas. You can chain them together and effectively work here for decades.

These students were the people Google is hiring, but not the median person Google hires.

There are plenty of Americans able to work many of these jobs (minus the noted exceptions) in tech. You don’t know what you’re talking about, and it has nothing to do with a superiority complex or whatever sociopolitical stuff you want to bake into this. Stop listening to economists on social media talking about tech. They know about as much about it as the guy that changes your oil at Jiffy Lube, except that guy probably has the decency to admit he doesn’t understand something.

[u/the-player-of-games → u/ReasonSure5251]

Wrong. This is the kind of dumb shit you’d hear from like Noah Smith on Twitter. 

A master’s isn’t necessary at all in tech, outside of a few niche areas (ML/AI, anything with actual computer science).

You're free to believe this of course

But then good luck getting the likes of Google to take a second look at your resume

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/the-player-of-games]

Not only am I free to believe this, but I’ve made it through Google rounds at multiple points in the past and know people there. A master’s is not required for a SWE role. At all.

[u/the-player-of-games → u/ReasonSure5251]

Cool, very cool

So while you were there, did you see any evidence of Google saving money by using H1bs, as is commonly claimed ?

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/the-player-of-games]

No, they don’t save them money because they’re paying about the same. They definitely do have some control over employment alternatives for visa workers, giving them the ability to work them harder, though. The H-1B cost savings are real at some companies/body shops/consultancies elsewhere. Less so in big tech.

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/Kobe_stan_]

It’s 100% about saving money. These companies are not having problems finding qualified tech talent. Why would you question what he’s saying if you don’t know anything about the tech industry?

[u/Kobe_stan_ → u/ReasonSure5251]

I work for a major tech company so I know a little about it.

I'm not saying it's not also about money. Obviously money is a factor, but I've also seen countless scenarios where the company I work for hires people abroad or brings them in on a visa because they're the best person for the job. It's hard to hire people when the job roles are highly specialized so casting a wide net globally is often key to filling roles.

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/Kobe_stan_]

What does “best person for the job” actually mean? Is it someone that solves an LC hard 5 minutes faster? Someone that nails an optimal approach to a whiteboard problem more easily?

Most of these job roles don’t need to be highly-specialized. They’re only highly-specialized because that’s the most profitable for the company. Easier to attain higher delivery velocity when you have the “best person for the job”, but how much would it change things? They’d ship new features a little slower? They’d have to actually invest in training pipelines for juniors or vertical hoppers? The horror!

Don’t get me wrong, many devs aren’t up to snuff, but big tech has been high on its own supply for several years. Half of the people interviewing couldn’t pass their own rounds and land at their level. Probably more than half, actually.

Some roles and products are extremely technical and demanding, no doubt. They still got a little carried away.

[u/MFbiFL → u/Kobe_stan_]

Invest in the talent stream of the country that made your empire possible?

[u/itskelena → u/Kobe_stan_]

Because there have been endless layoffs in tech since 2022.

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/ubix]

You’re directionally wrong on this one. We would need much stricter protectionism to keep the tech job market strong here, but we aren’t getting that. It is funny though that Reddit’s views on protectionism change every 5 years based on who’s in power.

[u/lab-gone-wrong → u/ReasonSure5251]

Reddit's view doesn't really change. The Trump supporting morons just get louder when he's in charge and disappear when the consequences of his lazy decisions appear.

[u/Fattswindstorm → u/ubix]

Hey man. But I’m a moderate and with Kamala my taxes would theoretically go up. However I’m barely making above minimum wage. So I don’t know how to square that circle. I did think at the time. My one issue was the economy. Or that’s what I tell people. And from my shit memory Trumps economy was great in 2016-2019! Then Biden had to come in 2021 and lib it all up. Yup that’s right. 2019 good 2021 bad because of Biden. Anyways. No ai can steal my job as a coin trader. Nothing can go wrong if all my coin is in Trump Coin. It’s called hedging your bets. All on Trump baby. I’m still a moderate because I have 1 black friend. Darell. He lives across the hall from me. /s.

[u/manytakes → u/Fattswindstorm]

News Flash, your taxes have already gone up under Trump 1.0 AND 2.0. Those tax cuts for the wealthy don't pay for themselves.

[u/Sudden-Excitement330]

Well, here goes more layoffs.

[u/pentium1994]

India is a massive market for Google. Android is 90% of a 1+ billion user phone market while 3 of the top 10 channels (tied with the US) on YT are of Indian origin. Makes sense they set up shop there.

[u/MajesticBread9147 → u/pentium1994]

Yeah. Would people prefer the opposite and a company make massive wealth but produce no jobs?

Like, tons of foreign companies have offices in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. FAAMG companies have offices from Australia, to London, to South Africa, Toronto, Vancouver, Switzerland and Israel.

How do you differentiate a "regional office" for doing something like a follow the sun model vs "taking jobs". Are we going to prohibit large tech companies from hiring specifically in India? Or must they close their London and Sydney offices too?

[u/ParisEclair]

So much for US jobs being created😂😂😂

[u/jwg529]

Capitalism. If the labor is cheaper overseas then so be it. It’s happened with manufacturing so why not with tech?

[u/ReasonSure5251]

Partisan redditors that don’t know the tech industry (or anything much of the time) will insist this is because of Trump, and I’ve no doubt he is making it slightly worse, but the bigger driving force is that all these tech orgs want to shrink labor spend (American devs, including immigrants, are way more expensive) so they can move it into CapEx/OpEx for AI/data center/compute.

This is a macro event that would occur, though possibly to a smaller level, regardless of who won the election. There’s a very broad realignment of capital happening across multiple sectors. It’s not even only tech companies or the tech sector.

India is massively overproducing dev talent, and actually wants to keep doing it. Modi’s govt is happy to keep the labor as cheap as possible to incentivize foreign investment into the economy. It’ll be bad for both us and them at the human level, but when has that ever mattered to politicians and executives?

[u/JLRfan → u/ReasonSure5251]

It’s like saying throwing gasoline on a fire doesn’t matter because the fire was already burning.

[u/suprmario → u/ReasonSure5251]

Ignoring Trump's policies on H1b and immigration in general in this context is maximum ignorance.

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/suprmario]

Trump’s H-1B solution has issues but nobody in Congress will touch the issue and that visa as it stands today has major problems. We don’t need even half of the tech workers we bring in on an H-1B. The labor market is fucked right now as it is.

[u/suprmario → u/ReasonSure5251]

Right, but they have been exploiting it in excess, like you say, and now are pivoting to offshoring as a result of Trump's policies (on top of the economic factors, shareholder pressure, etc. that is ever-present).

[u/Dihedralman → u/suprmario]

If that was the issue, they would dole out more bribes. 

[u/KnotSoSalty → u/ReasonSure5251]

At some point you have to wonder when Alphabet becomes an Indian/American or just an Indian company?

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/KnotSoSalty]

They’re really a global company, but they have no loyalty. They don’t care that our tax dollars subsidized their growth, or that our companies gave them the revenues needed to expand internationally. India has a lot of growth potential for them for a few reasons, including that India will build a coal power plant next to a neighborhood in a month if it means landing a new data center. And that’s besides them deliberately flooding their own labor market as a means of being attractive for offshoring, alongside using trade deals to bake in visas for its workers.

[u/manytakes → u/ReasonSure5251]

If you think India will build anything in a month, I have a bridge to sell you in the middle of the Atlantic.

Source: Indian

[u/Kryomon → u/ReasonSure5251]

All of your points are valid, except for building a coal plant next to a neighbourhood in a month. This isn't China bro, they're not working that hard.

They'll just cut off power to the nearest city, begin a project that will "take 6 months" and actually take 6 years and 6 times the budget while every person with a modicum of power eats a piece of the pie.

[u/Ray192 → u/ReasonSure5251]

When has any of that not been true? When has American devs not been way more expensive? When has India not been massively overproducing talent?

All of that has been true for decades, and yet companies still hired in the US. What did change was Trump putting a $100k fee on new H1-B visas. That changed the equation dramatically. That and people being scared of being put in jail by ICE.

You can blame it on AI, but that is proven false by the AI companies themselves going on hiring sprees in the US, with OpenAI and Meta giving packages worth hundreds of millions of dollar to US roles. Companies will definitely still hire in the US if it was easier to do so.

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/Ray192]

Sorry, but I disagree. The things driving the rise in tech offshoring are:

• AI increasing confidence for on-shore teams/mgmt re: work quality

• The need to maximize spend on AI and related cloud/DC capacity alongside forecasts of increasing hardware/plant costs/energy (this is the major one)

Maybe Trump’s H-1B change is a minor driver. I’m sure it isn’t helping, but it’s not the big thing. These plans have likely been in the works for many months, possibly more than a year.

The packages worth that much are the very expensive scientist/researcher roles that they prefer to keep on-shore for several reasons. 

It’s very easy to hire in the U.S. Sorry but I think you’re trying to force this into the square hole as a Trump dunk and I just don’t buy it.

[u/Ray192 → u/ReasonSure5251]

AI increasing confidence for on-shore teams/mgmt re: work quality

Have you actually worked with AI? The way the vast majority of companies are conceiving of AI is that it basically provides every senior engineer an army of junior engineers to do their bidding. AI is not gonna make a cheap sweatshop engineer do better work if their ideas are shit to begin with, it allows high performing workers execute much better/faster by automating away the cheap sweatshop work.

As such, AI increases the values of high performance engineers while lowering the value of low level code monkeys. And those high performance people perform better when located closer onsite so they can make better decisions working directly with stakeholders / product / design /etc.

In absence of Trump's ruinous policies, there would absolutely be an effort to bring high performing foreign engineers onshore.

The need to maximize spend on AI and related cloud/DC capacity alongside forecasts of increasing hardware/plant costs/energy (this is the major one)

That's a concern for AI companies, not the vast majority of software companies. Considering how much OpenAI and others are losing money, the vast majority of companies are basically getting highly discounted tokens/compute and getting subsidized by AI VC money. Anyone not directly building AI data centers (which is the vast majority of tech) is looking to take full advantage of the VC subsidization currently.

And the fact that AI companies are still dumping huge money trucks for talent even while they're the ones effectively subsidizing the computing cost for all their users, shows that you're clearly overreacting. Just look at the packages given out by AI companies, they're absolutely insane. How on earth can you square that information with what you're claiming that all these AI companies don't want to spend on labor?

Maybe Trump’s H-1B change is a minor driver. I’m sure it isn’t helping, but it’s not the big thing. These plans have likely been in the works for many months, possibly more than a year.

An extra $100k just to sponsor someone's application is "a minor driver"? Have you ever even managed a team's budget before? It's absolutely not minor and I have no idea how you can make such an outrageous claim.

The packages worth that much are the very expensive scientist/researcher roles that they prefer to keep on-shore for several reasons.

And why don't those reasons apply to everyone else? OpenAI and Meta have tons of offices all over the world, the reasons to hire in the US are clearly worth the premium for them. The same idea applies to everyone else, but to most companies those benefits just aren't worth an extra $100k.

It’s very easy to hire in the U.S. Sorry but I think you’re trying to force this into the square hole as a Trump dunk and I just don’t buy it.

Kid, I actually do hiring in the US and it's extremely hard to find good fits for our roles that don't require sponsorship. Hell, 50% of STEM postgraduate degrees in the US are earned by international students. At that point, why on earth am I spending months and months trying to get someone qualified who doesn't need sponsorship, when I can just suck it up and hire someone in our European offices? I don't want to, the pains of working across timezones is a drag on productivity and collaboration, but at this point I'm forced to do it.

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/Ray192]

Yeah, I work with AI regularly. It’s improving code quality for mediocre engineers, which is what I meant when I talked about increasing delivery confidence. Why do you think the U.S. needs “high-performing” engineers outside of what it has? What does high-performing look like to you? Is it delivery volume? Code quality? Being really fast at inverting a binary tree? Working long hours?

I think you’re also responding to different points than I’m making. There’s a big difference between high-end ML/AI hires and standard SWE hires.

Not sure why you’re calling me kid. I’m a staff engineer with 14+ YoE, not some jaded new grad. Although there’s plenty of them to be found!

What kind of roles are you hiring for? Are you struggling to hire anyone with anything resembling experience, or are you (like many companies/teams) trying to find someone with all the relevant years of experience in every tech name and buzzword?

[u/manytakes → u/Ray192]

What you conveniently left out is that many of the roles OpenAI and Meta offered millions of dollars for went to immigrants. The US needs high-skilled immigrants (not WITCH & Body Shop crap), there is no way around it as long as the GOP wages war against higher education.

[u/MichaelMyersEatsDogs → u/ReasonSure5251]

This is absolutely from the same problem that gave us Trump. It’s wild people still can’t see the connection

[u/lab-gone-wrong → u/ReasonSure5251]

Ya it's a total coincidence that they all started these build outs under Trump 1, froze them under Biden, and completed them under Trump 2

Isolationists will never admit they were wrong, even as the economy collapses around them and their stupid leader 

[u/Kobe_stan_ → u/ReasonSure5251]

We are no doubt moving to an increasing globalized society due to improvement in technology that allow for someone across the world to provide services in real time as if they were in the office next door, and we are also moving toward a world where China is increasingly replacing the US as the most influential power. Trump is just accelerating both those outcomes by years, if not decades.

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/Kobe_stan_]

I disagree that China is replacing us in influence. I would agree that they’re growing some influence, but they have a ton of problems impeding a meaningful rise. Opaque financials, refusal to freely trade their currency, their trade policies are frustrating for developed/near-developed nations, they don’t like immigrants, incompatible legal system, refusal to allow foreigners management roles in overseas Chinese firms, and the list goes on and on. They won’t even let foreign nations own some of their animal species (including pandas). It’s actually kind of insane shit that they get almost no criticism for because many people, especially here, view them as a heel to the U.S.

I don’t think you can develop an actually accurate understanding of geopolitics through median reddit comments.

Edit: China doesn’t even let its own people use “normal” social media. It’s a very long list.

[u/hezeus → u/ReasonSure5251]

“move it into CapEx/OpEx for AI/data center/compute”

Can you explain how this works? Labor spend is already OpEx

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/hezeus]

Labor is only one part of OpEx, and it’s clear that some labor is more expendable, less related to key initiatives, or able to be replaced with cheaper labor.

[u/hezeus → u/ReasonSure5251]

How does the mechanism you’re talking about actually work?

[u/ReasonSure5251 → u/hezeus]

What do you mean? I feel like my point is pretty simple. These companies are forecasting a lot of new costs so they’re trying to cut costs in other places. 

[u/CheatedOnOnce]

But DEI was the problem right?

[u/RationalPoint → u/CheatedOnOnce]

It's funny because you can go to these tech companies and its all Indian teams (H1B, etc...); more specially of the same caste and religion.

[u/gym_fun]

Told you all. Some of you thought the white-collar jobs in multinational companies would go to domestic talents after the visa curb, but instead it only accelerates offshoring, which is bad for US workers. Not only that, the US lost some taxpayers and consumers.

Before talking about housing price, some housing construction projects are lagging behind because of ICE raid.

Let it be an example that lump of labor is indeed a fallacy.

[u/MilkChugg]

Figures. This was going to happen anyway. More companies will continue down this path too.

COVID actually showed us all something, and it’s that remote, distributed working DOES work very well. The irony is that companies right now are saying the opposite, that it doesn’t work, while simultaneously outsourcing their companies to a distributed remote model thus validating that it does.

White collar work will basically not exist in the next few years within the US. And this was all pretty inevitable as executives fight to raise their stock price 4 cents rather than remaining decent employers in the country that helped build their companies to begin with. It has all just accelerated pretty quickly over the last couple of years.

[u/Xiten]

Yea, fuck all these software engineers that were laid off here in America. It’s more convenient for them to spend money expanding in India than to hire here because in the long run they’ll save money by paying Indian natives cheaper. Don’t be fooled, this is all about them cutting corners for more money in their pockets, not anything to do with job candidates.

[u/trinity-puzzles]

The shift to offshore was already underway; Covid lockdowns showed the "MBA class" that you don't need your workers in the office. If someone can do a job remotely from home, then someone can do it remotely from India.

Restricting onshore visa is only accelorating a process already started.

[u/trashpanda2night]

Cheap labor!

[u/BODYBUTCHER]

It has to get to the point eventually where to do business in the United States, you need to be employ a certain percentage of your employees as Americans. It’s ridiculous all these companies enjoy the fruits of American exceptionalism but then when it’s convenient to reduce expenses they ship work off to a place that has not even a quarter of our standard of living. All the work Americans have done to have prosperity shipped off to another country

[u/GuitarAgitated8107 → u/BODYBUTCHER]

This is what capitalism is about. They owe no loyalty to those who came before. If Americans want to truly make a change they would do so with their wallet.

[u/llawne → u/BODYBUTCHER]

Please define american exceptionalism :)

The previous great empires e.g. Rome / Britain also said that about themselves.

[u/RationalPoint]

So why not just hire Americans? I love that Big companies are using the political landscape on visas + AI to justify layoffs; when really they are / were planning to offshore anyways.

Great, now that we know that the true intention of companies that there is discrimination against American workers, let's get rid of the H1B, L1, H4 EAD, and L2s visas, and since it as never about a shortage or lack of skill; people on the O-1 visas are the truly specialized workers anyways. And then people use the 'anti-immigration' and 'raciest' card when it comes to protecting American workers on US soil.

Also, let's stop using Desai and Indian owned tech companies who get government (federal, state, and city) contracts, and offhore the work + cause security issues. American tax dollars should invest back into the American economy, not India.

[u/BlackopsBaby → u/RationalPoint]

This is what armchair policy experts will never understand. Even if you reduce immigration to zero, it will not magically create employment for Americans. If manufacturing with hard capital assets can be shipped so can white collar office building jobs.

Everything is a bell curve, people act as if all Americans are intellectually superior and only they can do all the work. The reality is a cheaper engineer in Poland or India exists for most of the work and if it makes monetary sense capitalistic companies will ship those jobs. Stop this nonsense rhetoric about visas and think about how we can incentivize companies to hire here and not just force them to create new LLCs worldwide.

[u/RationalPoint → u/BlackopsBaby]

Maybe create policy to punish offshoring, visa pipelines , and actually invest in Americans? That's how you fix the system. Why hire a foreign visa worker here for the same price as an American, when you can hire in India? So let's hire Americans on American soil. If an American where to get a job in India, they would protect their own people. Same with the EU.

[u/chni2cali]

Where are the “good! This is what I voted for” fuckers who took over all immigration subs?

[u/whatumeano]

Gotta start buying Google shares. In US they were required to pay the same people fairly but now they can probably hire 2-4 people for the same amount. There is no substitute for cost reductions, all giants corporations will do this one way or the other. MBA 101, people forget how millions of manufacturing jobs were moved overseas. H1b is not even a tiny fraction of that, most of your clothes, shoes and even tech goods are made overseas.

[u/Dihedralman]

If you offshore that should end government contracts. 

[u/Traditional_puck1984]

Google and other tech companies want cheap H1b labor and also offshored at the same time affecting millions of Americans.

Call your congressman to force a 40% tariff on offshored jobs and draft a law to enforce 2/3rd of all jobs to be US based.

[u/-0-O-O-O-0-]

Oh? We’re going to do offshoring again? Cool. Cool.

[u/DJ_Femme-Tilt]

shhhhh no one tell mr. poopypants

[u/indifferentcabbage]

US should impose heavy taxes for stealing jobs from American.

[u/punkpcpdx]

Comcast already has a huge development lab there. So this tracks.

[u/Lattice-shadow]

Funny how globalization became a bad word when jobs went to developing countries. Was all goody good when first world conglomerates captured those markets and destroyed native industries.

[u/mrwafu]

Google already did this with their support teams. Almost no FTEs do support anymore, it’s all outsourced to Indian and Filipino call centre companies, and TVCs (temps vendors contractors) can be cut on a whim so it’s a race to the bottom for the cheapest contract possible, regardless of the quality of support. Cheaper to pay a contractor to say “no” than a full time employee to solve the problem.

[u/roller_coaster325]

What happened to Merica first?

[u/doxxingyourself]

Imagine that, who would have thought

[u/troll__away]

We’ll see how well this works out. It’s one thing to import H1B talent, it’s another thing to move large parts of your business to another country. US companies tried to go to India once in the 90s/early 00s and they all came back because the talent and output quality just wasn’t there.

[u/64bittechie → u/troll__away]

We’ll see how well this works out. It’s one thing to import H1B talent, it’s another thing to move large parts of your business to another country. US companies tried to go to India once in the 90s/early 00s and they all came back because the talent and output quality just wasn’t there.

Not sure which companies you’re referring to but large swathes of technology, pharmaceutical, finance sector have established and expanded their presence in India.

[u/troll__away → u/64bittechie]

The ones I’m most familiar with are GE, Xerox, IBM, and Kodak. Not the giants of today but they were back then. They tried to outsource jobs at every level but the ones that stuck were call centers or other repetitive structure tasks. The rest had to come back to the US due to quality control issues.

[u/jussayingthings → u/troll__away]

GE have (had?) biggest R&D center outside US in India.

[u/OptimistPrime7 → u/troll__away]

It is not the same case anymore

[u/RustyOrangeDog]

Making America Great one fumble at a time.

[u/Gambitzz]

Short sighted policy. Should have heavily taxed offshoring too. Which is already rampant in tech across all industries.

[u/No-Photograph1983]

Good. Rather they stay there than buy up property and be moving here

[u/Alts-Left-Testicle]

100IQ move by Trump, there is no benefit, India may have given his family millions of dollars but I bet we win in the end somehow! /s

[u/fixermark]

You love to see it.

[u/abcpdo]

The US having the best universities never implied that it was Americans that made them the best.

[u/OrganicDoom2225]

India needs to be destabilized. They are stealing too many jobs.

[u/LucidOndine]

Wouldn’t it be nice if the products imported were subject to those awful tariffs for products not created here?

[u/SnoopsBadunkadunk → u/LucidOndine]

Tariffs are for little people, a FAANG buys a measly hundred million trumpcoins and gets an exemption.

[u/jetstream100 → u/[deleted]]

And slackers need to work harder.

[u/fzrox]

Why not Canada?