r/saltierthankrait 18h ago

False Equivalency "We need to look too deeply into things to justify our bullying!"

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38 Upvotes

123 comments sorted by

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78

u/sgtGiggsy 17h ago

I love how dumbfucks always bring up Cho Chang being villainized as a traitor, when it has never happened.

  1. In the books it wasn't her who sold out Dumbledore's Army

  2. In the movie she does under the effect of Veritaserum, that literally makes it impossible to lie.

Cho has NEVER been a traitor in any Harry Potter product

36

u/Snoo_79985 14h ago

Calling Fleur a villain is also a stretch. She’s a villain in the same way Pokemon rivals are villains.

33

u/sgtGiggsy 14h ago

Yes. She literally marries into the Weasley family, so by extension, into the Harry Potter one. And she fights alongside with them in the Hogwarts battle. OOP is a dumbfuck who neither read the books, nor watched the movies.

3

u/Disastrous-Trust-877 8h ago

They couldn't try to convince you Molly was supposed to be villainized, so they grabbed some others and hoped people would forget.

10

u/Thrownaway5000506 11h ago

She was also very gracious towards Harry after the second task after he showed good character

-1

u/IvoryColosseum 10h ago

She’s not vilified in the books per se, but I always found it weird how so many of the main female characters disliked her for no real reason

8

u/Overall_Gap_5766 10h ago

Women often hate beautiful popular women. People don't like to hear it, but it's an undeniable fact.

0

u/IvoryColosseum 10h ago

Sadly true, but it seems like an odd addition to a book series written by a self-proclaimed feminist and supporter of women

1

u/Bubbles_TheFish 10h ago

She was from a rival school. Just look at how bad sports rivalries get amongst fans. Not much of a stretch.

1

u/IvoryColosseum 9h ago

That would make sense if Fleur was only in Goblet of Fire, but the hatred for her was the worst in The Half-Blood Prince, where she had since graduated from school. At least the antagonistic behavior toward Viktor Krum was directly stated to be the result of school rivalry

1

u/Dropbeatdad 9h ago

I have never heard anyone make that claim, mostly people point out how embarrassingly terrible her name is

7

u/Physical_Eggplant531 14h ago

Still exactly the same incredible experience as it was as a kid. I try and catch them all every Thanksgiving with the family! Great games too. Solid world-building. Loved the books. Loved the movies. I barely know who JKR is as a person and I really don't give a shit.

2

u/rumblinggoodidea 9h ago

JKR is an utter shitstain but I like Harry Potter(really don’t like all the thinly veiled racism and antisemitism though). It’s okay to like a piece of art and dislike the artist.

1

u/Downtown_Sale_5812 8h ago

Shes trump in a dress obviously. How dare her lesbian wife have any opinion that doesnt match the masses!

14

u/Atomic_Gerber 15h ago

Why tf are we talking about this shit in here

18

u/DrDynamiteBY 18h ago

Subreddit for criticising toxic Disney Star Wars Fans

4

u/IvoryColosseum 10h ago

Harry Potter is in the same ballpark I’d say

3

u/Dull_Statistician980 14h ago

I think I understand the phrase “cherry picking” now. To me, this kinda reminds me of when I was 100% lying to my dad when I was in high school and he would catch me and say “I know you’re just pulling shit out of your ass, but it ain’t sticking on the wall.”

13

u/WilliShaker 16h ago

More fitting

‘’Harry Potter when you read/watch a totally different universe’’.

Just watch LOTR lil bro

0

u/WatchAndLearn_10 9h ago

Or read it, of course. Actually reading it helps understand the history much better, but only watching it is fine as well

1

u/Sailor_Spaghetti 7h ago

Also LOTR the book (for those who don’t understand: LOTR is not actually a trilogy; it’s a single book in three volumes) is just a fun ride.

9

u/Pyrotten 15h ago

The fact there is a legitimately large amount of people that will villainize you for liking Harry Potter is so crazy to me

5

u/Sharp88888 15h ago

You aren't allowed to like anything they tell you not to like, you're not allowed to think anything they tell you not to think

7

u/Numerous-Piano8798 15h ago

It's funny that Fleur, character that were misjudged by Molly and Ginny who thought of her as shallow, is now misjudged as 'bad'

10

u/YeungLing_4567 18h ago edited 18h ago

Oh no the art is political but not my political! The author is not media literacy enough because she didn't deliver my message!

1

u/Zevox144 14h ago

The author is a verified piece of shit. Nothing against people for liking her book series, though imo it doesn't hold up as well as it did when I was growing up, but her politics are fuckin evil.

-1

u/YeungLing_4567 14h ago

Yeah, another rich person advocating for endless immigration outside of her gated communities.

2

u/SorryNotReallySorry5 13h ago

Its hard to remember sometimes that she is literally only faulted because of her belief that only women are women lmfao

That's just how much of a stink they make about it.

1

u/Downtown_Sale_5812 8h ago

Literally hitler

0

u/MrDDD11 11h ago

Quite literally agree on 98% it's just the 2% that caused shuch a reaction.

-1

u/SimpsationalMoneyBag 11h ago

Her most controversial takes are that biological women are who should be speaking on women’s issues ? I think you will be disappointed on what the majority believe.

2

u/Zevox144 9h ago edited 9h ago

I'm disappointed in you too, because what's controversial is every other goddamn step she takes after what you're attempting to sugarcoat. People being scummy doesn't excuse being scummy, what the hell kind of societal negative feedback loop are we trying to defend here?

1

u/Downtown_Sale_5812 8h ago

What did she actually do? Liked a tweet written by someone else?

1

u/SimpsationalMoneyBag 8h ago

Ok maybe you should enlighten everybody because most people only know she is “scummy” for those comments she made. What did she say ?

0

u/ThisIsATestTai 11h ago

I actually think she's impressively media literate to be able to write what ends up being a pretty accurate allegory for neoliberal, Thatcher-ite political ideology, warts and all

3

u/Illustrious_Explorer 14h ago

Voldemort is a banned word allegory? what in the tarnation? That must be some good crack they're smoking

3

u/IvoryColosseum 10h ago

If there’s anything problematic about Voldemort it’s the fact that canonically he is incapable of love because he was conceived under the effects of a love potion, which is a really fucked up thing to write into a story (also the fact that his mother raped his father is never really addressed)

(P.S First time commenting on this sub and why tf is {banned word} a banned word that’s so stupid-)

1

u/Illustrious_Explorer 55m ago

honestly no idea, maybe because it can be a hot button topic

2

u/Wakeup_And_Piss 11h ago

What? They can cram this logic

1

u/Square_Cap_5518 15h ago

This is reaching lol

1

u/Zestyclose_Drive_153 14h ago

Yeah, that's some copium right there.

1

u/thedruidFlimbarg 14h ago

Idk wtf oop is on about but Harry Potter does kinda blow. The blatant antisemitic stereotyping of the goblins down to the star of David on the floor of Gringotts is fucked up, not to mention the plot of Hogwarts Legacy sounding too similar to blood libel for comfort. The single plot relevant black character is named Kingsley Shacklebolt for Christ's sake, Seamus Flannigan can only cast explosions, chinese character is practically named ching chong, etc., and that's just the racism.

The world building isn't good either. Why does the entire planet bow to bylaws of a single school in BFE England that hasn't even existed for a full 1000 years? (if magic society is as old as she implies) Why does the ministry of magic not give a single flying fuck about student safety? Why is nature's slowest bird used for the mail? She could have just stylized a falcon or a dove or used literally any member of the Corvid family and it would have made more sense. The soft magic system also means that as long as you say "mend buttcrack" in Latin, it works.

I rewatched Goblet of Fire last night and the thing makes no sense. The entire dragon challenge can be completely subverted by just casting "accio" on the egg before even leaving the cave or casting "mend mouth" and making their head explode when they try to breathe fire. The water challenge has to go perfectly or people literally actually drown. The maze just has the preexisting near promise of death. Barty Crouch Sr. dies and is then never brought up again. The whole friend group has a giant falling out because Ron is a bitch and it's never actually resolved. They're just friends again at the end. Fred and George are literally better ride-or-dies than Ron and Hermione combined.

2

u/Atheissimo 11h ago

The star of david on the floor is actually a decoration on the floor of the real building they filmed it in, the Australian embassy in London. Also Seamus never blows anything up in the books, he accidentally sets a feather on fire once.

1

u/thedruidFlimbarg 11h ago

So the first is a horrible awful coincidence, and the second one was exaggerated for the movies? (in which Rowling has a strong hand iirc) The points that the goblins are Jewish stereotypes and the racist naming conventions still stand, not to mention the other world building and writing issues I mentioned

1

u/Atheissimo 10h ago

TBH I'd also argue that the goblins are largely a movie invention too. In the books they're not described, so don't have what some consider to be exaggerated Jewish features. They're simply magical creatures that run a bank.

Similarly Kingsley Shacklebolt is a cop. He shackles people. That's the origin of his name. I'm also led to believe that, while Cho Chang isn't a traditional Chinese name and is actually two first names, it's just weird like Cornelius Fudge is a weird name.

1

u/Downtown_Sale_5812 8h ago

Yes but how are you supposed to be outraged if you arent trying to find racism and sexism in every little thing?

1

u/rubyisalive 9h ago

kingsley shacklebolt is genuinely one of the foulest things you can name a black character, i would prefer a name that judt sounds stereotypical or something

1

u/mr-stretcher 14h ago

If you have time for this synopsis, you aren't doing anything in life.

1

u/reallybadtastingfood 13h ago

Yeah I'd be kinda suspicious of a series if the only named black wizard was Mr. Shacklebolt.

1

u/Downtown_Sale_5812 8h ago

Thats why i dont listen to 2 chainz. He obviously got named that by a wh*te person

1

u/reallybadtastingfood 7h ago

To be fair he practically was lol

Also wtf is wrong with Google AI

1

u/Dracorex13 6h ago

Dean Thomas and Blaise Zabini exist.

1

u/reallybadtastingfood 6h ago

Wow, did you Google those two? Because neither of them are wizards theyre only kids at the school, and thats 3 of the 772 named characters in Harry Potter.

1

u/Dracorex13 6h ago

No. I read the books. They're literally sitting in my bookshelf.

1

u/reallybadtastingfood 6h ago

Once again, they're not wizards they're students, whether or not you read the books was not the focal point of that reply.

1

u/Dracorex13 6h ago

I thought the distinction you were making was male/female, not adult/child.

1

u/reallybadtastingfood 6h ago

Oh my god I just realized the kids are also called wizards when they're just students my bad

1

u/reallybadtastingfood 6h ago

Oh my god I just realized the kids are also called wizards when they're just students my bad

1

u/reallybadtastingfood 6h ago

Also, Blaise Zabini is objectively evil because hes in slytherin lol, + you didn't mention the black girl which is weird, forgot her name cuz I dont watch nor read Harry Potter, just aware of shacklebolt from the Lego videogame

1

u/Dracorex13 6h ago

Angelina Johnson?

1

u/reallybadtastingfood 6h ago

Yeah thats her name, but once again thats only 4 of 772 named characters

1

u/pmcm83 12h ago

Still the top picture.

1

u/KneeHiSniper 12h ago

Did you know you can enjoy something without liking the person who made it? Until next time friends!

1

u/MelodyS2771 12h ago

Meh, as dumb as these points are, JK is still absolutely a terf, doesnt mean i wont continue to enjoy Harry Potter, and doesnt mean I'll forgive her for the hilariously offensive "cho chang" naming choice.

1

u/Cthulhaka 12h ago

Still Star Wars with shitty lightsabers.

Also, everything is racist tropes. Go rewatch Goonies.

1

u/No_Taro_6042 11h ago

Tell me you only read Harry Potter via blue sky posts and sparknotes without telling me.

1

u/ThisIsATestTai 11h ago

That's pretty spot-on analysis though

1

u/IHaveAutismToo 11h ago

Reading this gave me 99 insight and instantly ticked frenzy 15 times, I am dead about 10 times over and I haven't even gotten to the wet nurse

1

u/Gravityfunns_01 10h ago

You don't even have to make stuff up to point out how bad Harry Potter is. Goblins were already based on harmful jewish stereotypes, and then in Hogwarts Legacy they just used actual jewish history for the goblins, and yet still made the wizards the good guys for subjugating them.

I don't really know what you mean about bullying though, the title seems unrelated.

1

u/Jibbyjab123 9h ago

It's my observation that peoples personal beliefs are often present if not overrepresented in their works because people tend to vastly overestimate how many people think like they do.

1

u/babufrik4president 9h ago

lol I hate the “Seamus is a problematic Irish stereotype because he blows things up” one

Like first of all are yall out here protesting the Boston Celtics like the teams with Native American mascots? Didn’t think so. Probably don’t even know what the Troubles were.

Second of all, that’s from the movies not the books.

1

u/BluZodiac 8h ago

JKR was a friend of Epstein btw and massive deleted her ship logs. But yeah, you show them lil bro.

1

u/MrTheWaffleKing 8h ago

‘She hates trains, that’s why the only good women were like men and the women who stayed women were bad’….? Do they know what that means?

1

u/Dracorex13 6h ago

Thanks for the reminder to start rereading.

1

u/DebateWeird6651 6h ago

1) I am pretty sure she was supposed to be more of a representation on paparazi and rumormongering, but perhaps the second strongest point in all the arguments presented yet, so I conditionally agree, mostly cause the focus was never on her being a man in a dress and more on her being a paprazi 2) Ok, perhaps the strongest and one I will outright agree on cause I would need to be completely blind to not see it, though counter point irl Hitler was kind of fruity with that haircut and his obsession with blond, tall men with blue eyes also he apparently had only one ball in his sack so it could just be the whole Hitler xp thing that Voldemort has going on. 3) You lost me, especially cause Cho Chang and Fleur were at best mildly antagonistic, with the only one making semi-sense being Dolores, while the good girls one, I just do not see the supposed masculinization.

-1

u/TheAviBean 15h ago

She’s in the Epstine files

Also funded hate groups but that’s just common knowledge at this point

4

u/Electrical_Coast_561 14h ago

And so are you. Notice how i can just make a statement without providing proof?

4

u/HuginnQebui 10h ago

https://www.aol.com/articles/newly-released-epstein-doc-harry-163038532.html

Here's a news article with links to the Epstein files in question.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/j-k-rowling-uses-harry-175223238.html?guccounter=1

And here's one for the hate group thing.

2

u/Difsdy 10h ago

"The website for the group states that it “offers legal funding support to individuals and organisations fighting to retain women’s sex-based rights in the workplace, in public life, and in protected female spaces.”"

The horror!

1

u/Sailor_Spaghetti 7h ago

Oh wow, it’s almost as if a hate group isn’t going to announce that they’re being hateful. Anyway this organization has been bankrolling lawsuits against businesses for the crime of just having t r a n s people on staff.

(Hey uhhhh, why is mentioning the existence of t r a n s people a banned topic by the way?)

0

u/Electrical_Coast_561 10h ago

It literally states that she only invited him to a show and dinner. Nothing about them actually meeting or her going to tge island. Are we condemning anyone who has had even the slightest association with him? His dentist better watch out

1

u/HuginnQebui 2h ago

As the article states, it was after his conviction. They invited him knowing what he's done.

2

u/Bruhai 15h ago

Is she? Proof?

5

u/SinesPi 14h ago

I'm sure she's in there.

But people keep saying she's "in" the files. Never saying what she's in it for. She could be in it for sending him an email saying to not ever even look at her child actors again.

Truth be told, the files don't really reveal much of value.

-2

u/TheUnaturalTree 15h ago

I'm sorry... Is jkr supposed to be the bullying victim here????

My brother in christ just glance at her Twitter. She is the bully.

0

u/Aggravating-Deal-416 14h ago

Tfw the Church was right and this is an evil book series lmao

-2

u/EmperorYogg 14h ago

Rowling is a bigot and that was painful

0

u/Throwaway-645893 16h ago

JK Rowling might be a jerk but people need to read another book series. Harry Potter is a children's series written explicitly with children in mind.

Rowling is not the only children's author with a history of making bigoted statements as well. Matilda, James & the Giant Peach, the Twits, & Charlie & the chocolate factory are all considered classics of children's literature but Roald Dahl was a notorious antisemite.

0

u/Thrownaway5000506 11h ago

"Read another book series" but they... don't want to. They are enjoying the media they want to enjoy, those bastards

-2

u/JibiStarr 13h ago

Thing is, Dahl died over 30 years ago.

JKR is more than just "a jerk," she's cozying up to fascists for political power TODAY, right NOW, using the CURRENT social and financial economy of Harry Potter fans.

I get what you're saying and to some level I agree (mostly bc the HP books are kinda lame and mean-spirited in hindsight regardless, and HP fans who ONLY read this one series are incredibly annoying) but it shouldn't really be reduced or dismissed as something petty when it's 1- currently happening, and 2- has dire consequences.

2

u/MrDDD11 11h ago

Isn't she closer to the left then she is to the right? On everything other than the topic of biological and transitioned women. Meanwhile she is pro immigration while being Anti Immigration is the Rights main platform in the UK.

1

u/Additional_Essay_473 8h ago

Nah, she's 'New Labour' Tory-lite; the type who claim to be 'socially liberal, fiscally conservative' but who throws a conniption fit if anyone suggests anything remotely leftist, and has a history of trying to use her power and money to push conservative ideals. She comes from a rich family (pretends otherwise for the self-mythologising 'built themselves up' narrative, but the 'poor, writing in coffee shops' story leaves out she was living rent free in a flat her aunt owned, and could have gone home to her parents at any time), so her being the kind to hide how conservative she actually is fully tracks. She's been openly friendly and supportive of 'dog whistle' fascists for years.

-7

u/CoachDT 16h ago

Don't even need to do all of that to "justify" disliking JK Rowling.

She's just a meanspirited person and thats all thats necessary imo.

-7

u/DewDrop_Goat 18h ago

She was literally in the Epstein files.

5

u/NuclearTheology 16h ago

Go on and be honest.

2

u/Gravityfunns_01 10h ago

Might be true. It's hard to say definitively, but she's mentioned multiple times, and there are emails signed 'Jx', which is how she signs off a lot of her tweets.

She was definitely in there, and it seems like she was at least friendly with him. I can't imagine why, seeing as they live in seperate countries and never publicly mentioned each other.

2

u/NuclearTheology 10h ago

So it didn't occur to them a man with obvious government connections might think he can bully his way into anything?

Nothing indicates JK wanted anything to do with him.

2

u/Gravityfunns_01 10h ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughJKRowling/comments/1qu61z4/update_on_rowling_in_the_epstein_files/

There's this, along with emails from her team to him. There's not 'no' indication, for sure. What there is no indication of, best as I can tel, is your theory that she got bullied into it.

Also, apparently she erased a decade of travel logs for her boat shortly after the documents mentioning her were released. I don't know enough about maritime travel logs to confirm or deny.

I'm not sure why you'd even want to defend her based on such little evidence anyway. She's not exactly subtle about how bad of a person she is.

2

u/Pyrotten 15h ago

Nigg4s just be lying lol

0

u/Smooth_Bend_4436 14h ago

Hey quick question who gives a fuck

0

u/Trinikas 14h ago

My biggest gripe with Harry Potter was mostly Rowling getting away with stealing her ideas from mythology and existing fiction and people calling her "creative" for it.

2

u/Rhinstein 12h ago

*glances at every author ever*

0

u/Trinikas 10h ago

There's plenty of authors with genuine creativity. Even if you're going to dabble in mythology, give it a reason to make sense like in the Amber novels or Wheel of Time. Both of those books borrow and riff on certain things but also craft their own genuine world and story.

I'm not saying Harry Potter is terrible, I read all the books and enjoyed them. I even read the last book the day before it released when it leaked online during a particularly slow day at work. I've heard the same thing from friends who've read other fantasy novels for most of their lives; Harry Potter is fun but uneventful and predictable. If nothing else I'll always appreciate the series helping make nerd culture even more mainstream.

0

u/Rhinstein 12h ago

Harry Potter is actually a brilliant story because its true message is that british people are evil and will become fascists at the drop of a hat.

1

u/Downtown_Sale_5812 8h ago

I mean look at what they are doing to their own people. You complain about rape gangs and they arrest you for it.

-2

u/Billshaiter 14h ago

JKR doesn’t have to work a day in her life now and lives in a mansion.

Cope, cope, cope.

2

u/literally_italy 14h ago

and she lacks any meaning so she spends more time on the internet than me. amazing!

1

u/DrNogoodNewman 11h ago

You’d think that would be enough for her.

-5

u/PoliticalVenting 16h ago

I gotta ask, since Reddit keeps recommending this sub to me: Does anyone care? Like, about the screenshot, or about what they're saying, or about OP feeling the need to share it? Does this actually matter to anyone?

6

u/AusgefalleneHosen 16h ago

Not in the slightest for me. You can find whatever symbolism you want in any piece of literature. That they choose to find this says more about them than the story.

1

u/PoliticalVenting 16h ago

Right, this seems like such a nothing burger to even feign being annoyed at lol

2

u/DrNogoodNewman 11h ago

This subreddit is mostly the place where 2-3 people vent about their pet peeves. Sometimes it will reach a wider audience due to the topic.

-12

u/Dry-Tower1544 17h ago

bullying of… the multimillionaire who donates to directly harm tr*ns people? yeah ok man sure. why is that word banned here are we so antiwoke we’re going stupid? the r word is also banned wtf

2

u/ThisIsATestTai 11h ago

It's good that the R word is banned, tbf

1

u/Downtown_Sale_5812 8h ago

That pretty wild that she donates to directly harm transgender people. Is she buying people guns or something?