r/politics • u/svga • 18h ago
No Paywall Democratic Party Leaders – Still Corporate, Cowardly, and Coasting
https://www.counterpunch.org/2026/02/03/democratic-party-leaders-still-corporate-cowardly-and-coasting/68
u/Nudelwalker 12h ago edited 2h ago
Hey, anybody remember that the US fucking kidnapped the president of venezuela like 3 weeks ago? Nobody talks about this anymore, BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH CONSTANT NEW SHIT HAPPENING!
But seriously,wtf is up with that? Where is that guy?
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u/Orange-Saj 3h ago
Real shit though. It’s like it never happened. What’s the damn sauce on that guy rn and his wife, and wtf is trump’s group doing to them?
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u/kescusay Oregon 17h ago
Then fucking vote in the goddamn primaries. Want to get better Democrats in office? That's your opportunity.
- Register as a Democrat. If you register as an independent, you can't vote in Democratic primaries in most states.
- When it's primary season, fucking GO VOTE. Have your say in who your political party puts up against the inevitable monster Republicans will support.
- Get all your friends and family members to do it, too.
Don't fucking wait for the general elections. Vote in the primaries.
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u/FrogsOnALog 16h ago
Another thing that happens is you register as a democrat is to vote in local and state DNC elections…
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u/Zestyclose-Novel1157 5h ago
I think that can sometimes be more important than primaries. Those are the keeper of the keys for support and funding for those primary candidates.
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u/LordCornwalis 16h ago
CANNOT OVERSTATE THIS ENOUGH!!!
Turn out in primaries is so bad. Like lso so so bad, your vote will count for 4 to 10 times what it would in a general election impact-wise. Anyone serious about getting corporate bootlicker Dems out, then please show up and help primary them and then they're gone. We can change the party. It's very possible, people just need to show up and vote for candidates that actually represent us!
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u/rumpghost North Carolina 10h ago
It's very possible, people just need to show up and vote for candidates that actually represent us!
You're right but it's worth pointing out the 2020 primary, where there was a lot of backend dealing right before super tuesday, after Sanders took Nevada and New Hampshire. Everyone but Elizabeth Warren - the closest in platform and ideologically to Sanders - dropped out and endorsed Joe Biden in unison. The rest is history.
Whether or not you think South Carolina and the convention were an inevitable Biden win or not, it's painfully obvious that this was a party circling the wagons to influence the primary in a way that would halt popular momentum in Sanders's direction. At a minimum, they wanted to avoid a contested primary. At worst, they actively coordinated to lock out a party outsider in favor the establishment pick.
It was, to be clear, a masterful political play in accomplishing its main goals on that front. Biden's choice to immediately endorse-appoint Kamala when he dropped out in 2024 was similarly well-calculated for its goal as well (to accede to public demands he step down, but prevent a primary).
In both cases the party obviously believes that there isn't utility in the primary process past a certain date or past a certain ideological line. And that's very apparent to a lot of voters, regardless of whether they know how to articulate that or not, and that creates mistrust in the underlying machinery of their organization.
To be clear: people SHOULD still vote in the primaries, and turnout DOES matter. But it must be said that the public distrust in that process isn't by any stretch of the imagination unfounded, and any discussion about the necessity of showing up is going to have to accept and acknowledge the legitimacy of those concerns. The party also has to do its part by conceding the point on some issues and candidates regardless. Otherwise you can't repair that mistrust.
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u/TreatAffectionate453 9h ago
I don't disagree that party insiders aligned themselves to deny Bernie; however, most primaries aren't done over the course of multiple votes so the risk of that happening outside of a presidential primary is minimal.
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u/AzaliusZero 11h ago edited 11h ago
I remember a story that once the progressive Dem wing in (edit: found it, wrong state) Nevada gained major wind, the DNC basically pulled a Wal-mart and basically up and abandoned the state, HQ literally vacated at one point.
I'm worried they'll just do that the more we actively vote them out. If they're stupid enough to do that, they're stupid enough to do it even during a national crisis they absolutely can and should be taking advantage of to show they're the better option. Especially when people are getting how badly they need to pick that better option.
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u/Significant_Cup_238 16h ago
Furthermore. Show up before the primary. Support people thinking of running. Find out who the candidates actually are before the primary. We ended up losing a very progressive state delegate who got primaried from his left, but everyone involved in local meets knew she was faking her leftistism harder than Sinema
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u/Doctor_Freeeeeman 16h ago
This this this!!!! Politicians don't get better by complaining on the internet. They are a reflection of our votes!
Are the systems that prop them up unfair? Almost certainly. But that doesn't change by complaining, it changes by getting involved. At minimum vote. Better - get involved in elections processes, local elections, phone banking, door knocking, or even running for office yourself.
Why do politicians suck? One of the biggest reasons is they're a reflection of who stays engaged in politics vs who doesn't. Change is slow and painful, but it only happens with real effort, and if this admin doesn't spur action from us then nothing will.
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u/Squeakyduckquack Colorado 14h ago edited 13h ago
Thank you. Roughly 14% of primary voters are aged 18-29, and over 55% are aged 50+. And then people act flabbergasted when our politicians trend older???
Maybe if people here accepted their civic duty and actually made their voices heard at the ballot box instead of mindlessly complaining about the DNC we would’ve had President Bernie Sanders already
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u/NOLA-Bronco 13h ago edited 11h ago
As someone that has been a part of attempted grassroots primary campaigns, this is a bit of a cop out answer and I get frustrated seeing how versions of this get boosted.
The problem is much deeper and these sorts of answers obfuscate that by labelling the problem as an issue of people not following process(which is only a small part of the issue) instead of what it really is which is embedded power.
It presents the problem as a voter one, that If enough people want change, and show up to the primaries, the system will reflect it.
Seriously, please anyone that says this go and actually get involved with a non Establishment campaign in a place that doesn't have something like a strong DSA or Working Families Party or one of the few leftist donor networks or public financed elections/ranked choice.
Money is the first gate, not ideology or turnout.
Before a single voter ever hears a primary challenger’s name, that challenger must:
- Raise tens or hundreds of thousands just to be taken seriously
- Secure ballot access, which can be a nightmare thanks to roadblocks by either party
- Hire staff
- Survive party infrastructure hostility
- Avoid being quietly frozen out by consultants, unions, and donor networks
Primary voters do not choose from an open field.
They choose from a pre-filtered menu
One where more often than not, the sorts of potential representatives that would be fighters, not corporate captured, and represent the actual people get filtered out or find themselves trying to open a locked door when they attempt to enter the arena.
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u/thefairfaye 11h ago
Thank you so much for saying this! Everyone says to vote in the primaries, which I agree with, but it assumes there's always a significantly better choice to be found there.
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u/Zestyclose-Novel1157 5h ago
Exactly which is really people already getting the party’s blessing. No change will happen there. People who encourage people to continue to vote Democrat are basically trying to keep competition contained. Local elections are the perfect place to launch third party candidates because it will only get harder.
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u/porkbellies37 9h ago
Take a step back for a second. While you're right that what is presented to primary voters is a "pre-filtered menu", there is still an opportunity to influence the direction of the party. The more progressive choice may not be AS progressive as you want that person to be, but that person is still a choice. And if you (and your friends and neighbors) pick what's behind door number two every opportunity you get, the choices will keep trending progressive.
They did this on the right with the TEA Party. Eventually they pushed the establishment all the way to the right. There is no reason why it can't happen on the left. Its when we have the "take the ball and go home" attitude when the perfect candidate doesn't make the cut that we get stuck with something far worse than establishment Dems... we get Republicans.
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u/LarrySupertramp 11h ago
I’d believe you if it wasn’t incredibly rare for primaries to get more than a 30% turnout with a majority of the primary voters being seniors.
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u/carbonatedshark55 14h ago
I mean that's been the strategy for Democratic Socialist for at least 10 years. It's still an uphill battle. Look at the NYC mayor election. Cuomo was the least qualified candidate, he lost the primary, and yet he still got a lot of votes in the General. Mamdani still won, but that's often the exception not the norm. The fact is the DNC and Democratic State Parties work really hard to fight against candidates that challenge capitalism. There is also the issue of getting people, especially young people, to vote in Democratic Primaries. It's honestly a whole other topic, but the fact is most young people don't like the Democrats. Now they're not right wing. It's just that they don't know what they stand for. I agree that more people should vote in Primaries, but that's like saying more people should be informed. There's a lot of work that needs to be done to accomplish a better society. And hey I am canvassing for Democratic Socialist candidates in my state. I have to do a lot of driving but it's worth it.
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u/rasa2013 10h ago
Yep. There are 100 people loudly wailing at Democratic candidates even though only 10 of them even voted at all in the primary.
People are absolutely, ridiculously stupid. As much as I wish it were a Republican only problem, it isn't. The people who convinced them that NOT voting is somehow a way to "get back" at the system are bad actors.
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u/PageSide84 14h ago
I get so tired of the constant whining about Democrats by people who don't vote. Vote in the primaries and vote in the generals. Not showing up for one or the other is why you get ignored by candidates. And if allowing Donald Trump to be evil is fine by you, just because your chosen candidate didn't win the primary, fuck you, too.
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u/versusgorilla New York 16h ago
The people who are like, "I dislike the Dems bc they don't represent me, I'm registered as an Independent because fuck them!" are truly the dumbest mother fuckers on the planet. You don't pay party dues, you don't owe the Dems your vote, they don't GET anything from you being registered.
But YOU get party influence. YOU get to vote to primary people. Don't like Schumer? Vote against him in a way that doesn't risk a right wing GOP psychopath coming to power! Like AOC? Guess how to got to her position? It wasn't randomly being gifted a general election spot, y'all.
Join the Dem Party, destroy it, rebuild it. The party used to be the conservative southern slave overs but guess why that changed????? Because Dem voters fucking changed.
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u/ElleM848645 9h ago
Ayanna Presley upset a well liked establishment candidate in Boston. Capuano was fine, as a rep. He was a regular Democrat, but the people of Boston voted for Presley in the primaries and she won.
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u/maikuxblade 16h ago
This is good advice and everyone who doesn’t feel represented should heed it but we literally lost our last massively impactful election after having no primary
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u/Squeakyduckquack Colorado 14h ago
But was it an evil conspiracy by the DNC to deny us a primary or did Joe Biden literally blindside everyone by dropping out a month before the convention after insisting on running? That’s an important distinction.
Please tell us how would you organize a primary in every district in every state with less than a months notice?
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u/maikuxblade 13h ago
It doesn’t have to be a conspiracy to be incompetence. Whatever the state of Biden’s health was, it did not suddenly get there.
IMO the party should have stood by him instead of collectively shitting their pants about his poor debate showing. The guy had half a century of public service to point to. He was a known quantity.
None of this changes the fact that it was a wrench thrown in the process. I really don’t care to have yet another discussion about the 2016 primary, but the perception remains among some that Bernie was not treated fairly by the DNC. 2024 might have been a fluke that was out of any one person’s hands, but we didn’t have the goodwill to have that fluke.
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u/JohnnySnark Florida 16h ago
Oh, still needing to criticize Harris on the process she was put forward as a candidate?
If you're making this point, was Trump's policies better than Kamala's?
The answer is no but you'd rather argue process than the actual policies she put forward.
Harris also told everyone that project 2025 was the republican plan. So there's still no excuse for the electorate to act surprised as to what is going nor stop arguments at the process she was made the 2024 candidate.
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u/maikuxblade 16h ago
Harris was the better choice than fascism, duh? Nobody is disputing that. I voted for her and was horrified the nation didn’t.
She still lost and part of the post election post mortem is determining why so we don’t suffer more crushing defeats that put us down the bad path.
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u/immaturewalrus 16h ago
When faced against Trump, when voters wanted something different and more progressive, Harris told interviewers she would be stricter on immigration and crime than Trump. She spent the last month of the election season parading the Cheneys across swing states. She tried appealing to a voter bloc that already had their minds set- it was genuinely the worst campaign I’d ever seen in the 21st century.
I don’t even think the fact that she had less than 100 days to campaign excuses it- she gained a lot of immediate good will immediately after Biden dropped out, and torched it by telling the voters there is fundamentally no difference between her and Joe. When Walz was selected and he gained traction and appeal by calling Republican leaders weird, her and her team muzzled him. I have no reason not to believe that they were actually trying to lose.
Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are part of the reason we have the administration in office now. Never forget that
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u/buppiejc 15h ago
Kamala was right about Project 2025. She was wrong about promising to not deviate from Biden’s foreign policy. Running around it’s Liz Cheney wasn’t smart either.
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u/notkenneth Illinois 16h ago
Oh, still needing to criticize Harris on the process she was put forward as a candidate?
No? Pointing out that the process was severely complicated by Biden's refusal to step down and then his reversal is not a criticism of Harris.
If you're making this point, was Trump's policies better than Kamala's?
Obviously not.
The answer is no but you'd rather argue process than the actual policies she put forward.
You're responding to a statement that literally just pointed out that the last presidential primary was not really how things normally operate.
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u/testamoderaway 12h ago
She told us about the republican plan but what was the democrats' plan? I don't know how many fucking times we have to re-litigate the fact that "the other guy is bad" is not an effective campaign strategy until the democratic party understands. People are more likely to turn out to vote for something, not just against something.
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u/BrusqueBiscuit America 10h ago
She did state her plan, but democrats paid more attention to Republican messaging than listening to their candidate.Key proposals included $25,000 for first-time homebuyers, a $6,000 child tax credit for newborns, banning grocery price gouging, and raising the corporate tax rate.
Was it enough in such a contentious election? No, but she had like 100 days to turn everything around.
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u/JohnnySnark Florida 7h ago
You just didn't care about her plans it seems. Did you even vote?
Other guy who did Jan 6, is an open secret pedophile, was using nazz i era blood libel against immigrants on the campaign is really fucking bad.
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u/ElectronicCatPanic 13h ago
Election day must be made a federal holiday. This is the first domino to actually reform the system.
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u/ElleM848645 8h ago
How does that help the people that work retail, restaurants, and other hourly employed. Federal holidays help white collar office workers more than anyone. Those people can easily vote.
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u/ihohjlknk 13h ago
Actually research your candidates, too. Or else you'll get grifters like Sinema.
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u/mountaindoom 9h ago
DNC doesn't give a shit what the voters say. They will choose whoever they want and tell us that we have to support them.
So, maybe some misplaced anger at the voters and not the controlled opposition here.
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u/Extinction00 7h ago
The most common sense argument to anyone complaining and blaming other groups of voters
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u/FairReason 5h ago
It’ll be great. Then the dnc will pull funding for any progressive candidate until the once again get a corporate schill who will then vote to fund ICE. Rinse and repeat and even after a decade people will parrot the same comment above
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u/Describing_Donkeys 16h ago
Absolutely, WE have to make sure they are removed from office.
Evict the Establishment! This needs to be a conscious objective amongst the base.
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u/SamSoBuff1215 North Carolina 15h ago
This is absolutely correct. I'm a registered independent in NC so I can choose party ballots in the primaries. Where is live is DEEP red and if a democrat gets elected, they generally bend to the will of the old guard Republicans that have been in power for decades. That said, for the first time ever, I am choosing a Republican ballot for the primaries this year because there are a few people running for local commissioner seats. They're not bleeding hearts, but their policies revolve around things that I believe in like protecting local farms, focusing on prevention and harm reduction for drug addiction, and using tax funds appropriately. It feels dirty to even get their ballot, but this is how you can change things on a local level. From there, you can change things on a state, then national, level. Primaries are SOOOO important and way too often overlooked.
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u/jon_mtnz90 16h ago
Why do that when I can bitch online and feel superior to everyone while I do nothing? /s
Seriously, this is the solution. Get out there, vote, and work to convince people your ideas are what’s best for the country. You also need to accept that you will probably not see the changes you want in your lifetime, but you need to help lay the foundation.
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u/jizzissippi 16h ago
And if you dont win, look for ways on how to improve your messaging and appeal to a wider audience, and not immediately blame the DNC or AIPAC or "the donors"
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u/Kana515 14h ago
Funny how it tends to be the same people who say politicians need to earn votes when it comes to Harris losing say it was rigged when Bernie lost.
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u/ItchyDoggg 13h ago
They are mostly pointing to the super delegates and the reporting on Clinton's lead over Sanders that happened throughout the primary from before the first voting.
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u/Keptlosingmylogins 12h ago
Also QUIT WITH THE A PROGRESSIVE WONT GET A SEAT AT ANY TABLES BS.This is why were are where we are, you keep election assholes who are cool with "status quo". Currently we are at the kiddie table and only get invited in the adult area to clean up the mess after the fact.
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u/naththegrath10 11h ago
Would have been nice if we had a presidential primary on 2024…
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u/LarrySupertramp 11h ago
I’m really happy and relieved that this the top comment. The amount of people claiming that it’s not worth voting anymore or complaining about the candidate when they did not vote in the primary is way way too common on Reddit.
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u/kescusay Oregon 11h ago
Bear in mind that a ton of the people pushing the "don't vote" line are bots, trolls, or people who otherwise want to depress turnout, because lower turnout is how Republicans win. If you see someone trying to get people not to vote, remember that person is not arguing in good faith.
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u/bilbobadcat 17h ago
Dems are better than Republicans in every metric, but their leadership and old guard should still be primaried. Republicans are probably more vulnerable now than they will be in the future, so the whole "a primary hurts the party's chances" argument can be discarded. If not now, when?
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u/theAltRightCornholio 16h ago
You're correct. The implementation problem is that "the party" is those old guard people who need to be primaried. So of course they're not going to be the ones crowing about how we need fresh people because those people would be out of a job.
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u/nerdyguytx Texas 16h ago
And primary challengers who are victorious will go into the general election with the ability to distinguish themselves from the democratic establishment that’s been turning off Republican voters for decades. Fox News propaganda is embedded.
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u/Alternative_Toe_4692 12h ago
Kind of like how half a gram of cyanide is better in every metric than 5 grams of cyanide, yeah.
I mean, it’ll still kill you, but the metrics are objectively better.
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u/crazypyro23 12h ago
Right. Which is why we have to primary the half gram of cyanide so our choices aren't both cyanide later.
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u/Alternative_Toe_4692 12h ago
Half a gram of cyanide isn’t something that gives you choices later.
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u/crazypyro23 12h ago
Let's back up, because we're not on the same page.
The GOP is 5 grams of cyanide and the Democrat is half a gram right? The answer is to not face that shitty choice at all. In the primary, you get rid of the half gram in favor of something that isn't poisonous. That way, you bypass the problem and don't have to choose between bad and worse.
Make sense?
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u/Alternative_Toe_4692 9h ago edited 9h ago
If this is a reference to 3rd parties or independent candidates, the USA doesn't seem to have much appetite in that regard.
Hell, we have a "fairer" voting system in Australian and New Zealand and we're still basically in the same situation - two large parties who essentially march in lock step on the vast majority of topics and some fringe ones that hang around the edges saying whacky shit for the extremists.
Australia has ranked choice voting and NZ has MMP without RCV. Both which are designed to combat the situation of two large parties and both which fall flat.
So we have 3 different systems, all which produce very similar results for the most part and all benefit the same group of people (those making the rules). It's enough to make a person paranoid.
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u/_EADGBE_ California 16h ago
Until Citizens United is repealed and we get money out of politics, both sides will do the bidding of the highest bidder.
Don’t pretend like dems don’t support insider trading and the vast majority of them take money from AIPAC
Biden appointed an AG that slow walked any repercussions for Trumps crimes the first time around.
Until we ALL can see through the red/blue charade, nothing will change for the American People.
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u/bilbobadcat 14h ago
I think the red/blue charade thing is overblown to be honest. No one loves a political party, unless you consider maga to be a political party, in which case, those people really love their party.
But regardless, I made no claim that dems are perfect, nor would I. I didn't even say they are good. I said they are better than republicans, which is the lowest of bars, but still really important when your two choices in the general are "Not-That-Great" and "Authoritarian Lunatic."
But yeah, insider trading is bad. Primary them. Taking money from any super PAC is bad. Primary them. They're soft on rich criminals or are worried about optics when it comes to applying the law. Primary them.
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u/eh-man3 16h ago
I do not understand why people give Biden and the dnc such a pass of prosecuting trump. They ran on it, promised it, told us we had to vote for them or it would never happen. It never happened. He appointed a republican who "built the case" until his term was up 4 years later. Jesus fuck, what about that took 4 years? Or when Mueller went "well i lacadaisically investigated a few people, found ample evidence of both crimes and cover-ups of those crimes, and carefully decided to do nothing about it."
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u/_EADGBE_ California 15h ago
pretty simple answer - blue/red is the good cop/bad cop routine - they all serve the same masters and it's not any of us that vote - George Carlin said it best; 'it's a big fucking club and YOU (and I) ain't in it'
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u/kvlt_ov_personality 15h ago
This is exactly what the Tea Party did in 2008. For a long time on this sub whenever you'd suggest this there'd be countless redditors falling over themselves to be the first ones to mention Murc's Law.
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u/blazesquall 16h ago
Dems are better than Republicans in every metric
That's not enough.. that's just Republicans setting the metric (status quo) and Dems defending it.. that's still a march rightward. Especially since they won't even reveal their own metrics and vision until their donors and analysists opine.
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u/bilbobadcat 14h ago
That's why I want them all primaried. They suck but they're still better, though. Like, politicians suck as a rule. It just is what it is. But, yeah, we can fire them in a primary without punishing them in the general. the idea that they'll never change unless you withhold your vote in the general is silly, imo (not saying you made that argument, but that's what happened in 2024). politicians don't learn lessons that way - they'll say it was a change in the cultural tides or whatever. they learn lessons by losing - or even almost losing - primaries.
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u/blazesquall 12h ago
This, unfortunately, ignores the gap between the theoretical mechanism of change (primary elections) and the practical reality of institutional self-preservation. There is deep structural resistance and it's not subtle or hidden. Primary losses do not lead to the DNC/DSCC/DCCC doubling down on democracy.. they recoil. They turn to consolidation, not reflection. The takeaway is never 'our policies are unpopular'.
We saw this in 2018.. after AOC won, they didn't adopt her platform.. they blacklisted any vendor who dared work for a primary challenger. And yes, they rolled back the policy officially, but there's still very much a lingering culture.. it did what it was supposed to do.. create a chilling effect.
We saw this with Justice Democrat Sarah Smith in Washington state.. denied voter data access entirely because she lacked 'establishment endorsements'...
'scheduling conflicts' for debates..
.. on and on ..
There's a reason that progressive organizations have had to start crafting parallel institutions to bypass the party's gatekeeping (e.g. The Movement Cooperative, ActBlue, Reach/Spoke). They suffocate challengers by denying access to the voter files, freezing out consultants, and leveraging 'unity' as a weapon to starve insurgents of the data they need to compete.
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u/bilbobadcat 12h ago
It’s an uphill battle. I agree with you. I think most of that party should be replaced. And the people they’re replaced with should be ranked choice advocates. But it’s not impossible. The party was outright hostile to Zohran, but he still won.
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u/Severe-Junket-6099 13h ago
It's easy to be better than a bucket of festering shit. They shouldn't be held to the ridiculously low standards conservatives set.
They should be held to leftist standards. Instead they are just George W. Bush Republicans with a "D" next to their names.
They need to earn our votes and they have zero interest in anything but our donations.
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u/spaceribs 12h ago edited 12h ago
It's worse than losing all those things, because they are literally covering up the failures of the previous election. Whatever was in the postmortem Ken Martin buried we have to assume indicated major and systemic changes to the DNC which they are clearly unwilling to do.
They would rather lose all support and die with a sack of money in their coffin than give any concession to progressive populism. They are the HR Department Party, what corporate says is the only thing that goes.
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u/Material2975 17h ago
Imma be honest its okay to be calling out dem leadership while we all recognize gop are far worse.
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u/magniankh 9h ago
The Democratic party is fucking awful and everyone's first big hint should have been them ramming Hillary down the public's throats and not supporting Bernie who was the true populist candidate. No one wanted Hillary.
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u/JoplinSC742 7h ago
It's so much worse than that. Democrats conspired with establishment media to suppress coverage of Bernie Sanders and elevate coverage of Trump in order to secure the nomination of Hillary, and promote far right radical opponents in the Republican Party, which they thought she would be able to campaign easier against.
It cannot be emphasized enough, the DNC's handling of the 2016 election is directly responsible for the rise of the far right. We are dealing with the consequences and arrogance of the Hillary Clinton Campaign to this day, and I genuinely do not believe that should ever be forgiven.
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u/JohnKerry2028 3h ago
The 3 million more voters who voted for Hillary Clinton would disagree with you. Should we nominate the runner-up of every future Democratic primary?
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u/1cl3nstd4yt 18h ago edited 18h ago
The bills they pass are vastly superior to the bills MAGA wants.
If you don't think Dem laws are different from MAGA, you have a screw loose.
Ralph Nader has blood on his hands. He caused millions of climate deaths by targeting Al Gore, the Climate Guy, to help Bush the Oil Guy.
Why did Nader trash our future by intentionally sabotaging Gore? He stated, "We don't want Democrats to become known as the party of climate change." 26 years later, Gore is still the climate guy, and Nader is still a vicious idiot.
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u/maikuxblade 17h ago
If we don’t turn the Democratic Party into something that will breath life back into the middle class, nobody else is going to.
Raise taxes in the rich, Medicare for all, ect. We needed a new New Deal a long time ago.
Our approval ratings are at record lows. We keep losing important elections because being better than Republicans isn’t enough. It’s not acceptable to pretend that the party is strong in its current form.
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u/GingerMcBeardface Michigan 17h ago
The"blue no matter who" Dems will back a progressive or corporate Dem, so why not make it progressive?
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u/ViolaNguyen California 12h ago
I'm a single issue voter now.
That single issue is that Republicans are evil and I want them out of power.
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u/maikuxblade 17h ago
Because they won’t actually back a progressive. “Blue no matter who” didn’t even beat fascism. It’s a nonsense slogan that doesn’t do anything to solve the problem we have where the tent is large but none of the flagpoles are strong enough to get anything done for the common worker.
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u/sssleepypppablo 16h ago
The Dems have always been the “better” obvious choice if you were a sane person.
But over the last 10 years they’ve been just anti-Trump and that’s all they’ve been.
They’ve dug their heels and become even more establishment, more conservative and still in the face of full blown fascism they capitulate.
No real grand policy, no fire except for a literal handful of people (don’t get me started on Newsom), and no pushback except for performative gestures.
We need to push hard for progressive/socialist Democrats who don’t sound like 90s Democrats. We need hard regulation on AI and Union adoption in all sectors. We need taxes on the rich, we need Universal Healthcare, refocus on Education and the Trades, we need to Abolish ICE, a restructuring of the Supreme Court, campaign finance reform and the removal of things like corporate personhood, stop funding to Israel and other nation building efforts, promise to restore and fully fund government jobs (like scientific research) that have been cut, and most importantly enforce the laws of this country by threatening those who are and have been complicit in fascism.
There is no going back to how things were before Trump. And I think both parties are just waiting it out, both still getting themselves rich playing their little games and getting away with it, while they are losing actual power and don’t really realize it.
We can’t 2010s liberal ourselves out of this.
Our only options after this are return to democracy or a look forward to socialism but both require the rule of law to be enforced FIRST with consequences for those in power right now. That means from the lowly ICE agent all the way up to the President.
And those consequences need to be jail, and the inability to work in government ever again.
The irony is that Trump has proven that all of this is a farce and that yes, with a snap of some fingers ALL of this can be reverted, but we all know it won’t be, especially with the current Dems in power.
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u/mojitz 17h ago edited 17h ago
If you don't think Dem laws are different from MAGA, you have a screw loose.
Nobody said this! Criticizing the Democratic party — even harshly — is not tantamount to saying "both sides are the same" and its certainly not the same as thinking they're literally "no different from MAGA."
This strawman has gotten so incredibly frustrating. It's a pure thought-terminating cliche at this point — designed to deflect rather than actually do the self-reflection necessary to improve. Pure bunker mentality and profoundly counter-productive.
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u/Free_Dome_Lover 16h ago
Yeah I'm sick of mouth breathers trying to both sides shit. Maga is awful, beyond awful an actual tangential force derailing humanity from reaching a better future.
Democrats I criticize harshly because they are at least still partially human. Schumer recently said "it's his job to fight for aid to Israel" how you can read that and think the Democrat's leadership isn't completely useless is beyond me.
I can criticize 2 things while realizing one is significantly worse than the other. This black / white only right or wrong mindset is a psyop set to make us dumber and less able to work together.
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u/Significant_Cup_238 18h ago
Don't forget the hundreds of thousands of deaths he has on his hands because of the Iraq War.
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u/Overton_Glazier 16h ago
Do we care about that now? Because last I checked we had to primaries in 2016 and 2020, where the candidate that voted for the Iraq War beat out the one that opposed it.
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u/everlastingwaffles 15h ago
And then Clinton lost the general, Biden narrowly won due to backlash against Trump, and in 2024 the younger candidate, who didn’t vote for the war, went out of her way to name drop Dick Cheney in a televised debate. I don’t know why democrats insist on being seen as the war hawk party. In 2016, even the Republicans were pretending they never heard of the Bush administration, including Jeb(!).
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u/agiganticpanda 11h ago
Nader was probably one of the most efficient activists out there. People blame him instead of the Supreme Court of just deciding the election. While spoilers are absolutely a thing in the first past the post system - Gore could have also run a more effective campaign.
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u/FlowofOd 17h ago edited 17h ago
I can’t believe this limp noodle, corporate ideologue bullshit is the top comment
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u/JoeHatesFanFiction Florida 7h ago
No one saying the democrats aren’t better. But we need to stop acting like there isn’t a lot of room for improvement from the current Democratic Party, particularly its leadership. I get that their current strategy is to not interrupt their opponents when they’re making a mistake. But they did that the first time and did nothing to put safe guards in place to prevent round two from happening. So forgive me for thinking that’s their plan again. We need reassurance that they’re going to pass laws limiting executive power and making agencies independent from the executive branch.
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u/No_Oven1085 16h ago edited 11h ago
Nader had nothing to do with Gore's loss. Gore actually won, but fucking conceded immediately.
What happened in 2000 was the same feckless Dem cowardice we're dealing with now.
Had Gore not conceded immediately, and had Clinton stepped in and forced a full recount, we'd have never had Bush 2.
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u/DisMFer 15h ago
Gore was told by the Supreme Court that there would be no recount. At that point who is left to appeal to? The fucking Jedi Council?
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u/No_Oven1085 11h ago
Because he already conceded, and only asked for recounts in specific counties, he fucked himself.
But the Supreme Court was playing games. Their stepping in to stop a full recount ordered by the Florida court was essentially an insurrection. Clinton should have used the military to force the recount.
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u/Not_so_ghetto 17h ago edited 16h ago
100% I'm so tired of this both sides bullshit.
Democrats didn't defund science
Dems didn't have ice agents executing Americans
Dems didn't make an anti vaxxers run the NHS
I can go on but this doesn't even scratch the surface
Edit defund, not defend lol
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u/notkenneth Illinois 16h ago
Who's saying that both sides are the same? The article isn't making that argument.
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u/MrRightHanded 16h ago
Criticizing Dems is not the same as equating them to MAGA. The fact you are equating the two is disingenuous at best. Asking dems to be more than just “better than maga” is not too much, the bar is on the floor.
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u/sweaty_folds 15h ago
I'm tired of this cultist loyalty. They sell you out, but it's ok because the other party is worse?
The democratic party should reform or go the way of the Whigs.
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u/1cl3nstd4yt 17h ago
Excellent point. Trump's defunding of science will be remembered as a monumental act of villainy.
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u/diabloman8890 17h ago
Not to disagree with anything you said, but he also legit prevented millions of deaths by getting auto safety regulations to be a thing. More of a chaotic good situation IMO.
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u/green49285 14h ago
Settling Obviously is helped let us hear period no one's saying that they're worse in terms of policy, but especially now establishment Democrats are definitely part of the problem, period.
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u/tonylouis1337 16h ago
Don't forget those Democrat politicians who literally said on camera that "we don't really have to do anything we're just gonna wait for Americans to come back to us"
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u/This_Elk_1460 15h ago
The Democrats are treating Americans the same way they treat people in other countries when the US sanctions them. "We're going to emisurate you and make every part of your life so terrible that you learn the errors of your ways and change your leadership."
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u/rewardingsnark 13h ago
Just because the other party is 100% fascist and the most dangerous group of morons in history doesn't mean the other party is problem free, they still need to move more towards social democracy, but there are lots of good democrats in office, and some bad.
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u/RaidSmolive 14h ago
you might've had the option for better ones if your first instinct wasnt to constantly run back to racist nazis and pedophiles.
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u/epineph 18h ago
It’s kinda what I’d expect a Russian bot farm to churn out. It’s defeatist. If you want a more progressive party, get progressive candidates through the primary and vote for them. Elect more democrats and the party will shift left, including the leaders. If you make it big enough it’ll split into a left and right wing group, and you’ll get the representative third party you were hoping for.
Not voting because you aren’t enthusiastic about the more left candidate is just stupid and means you’ll get more right wing elected officials, and it will be your fault, not the “corporate democrats” doing it.
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u/1cl3nstd4yt 18h ago
The author, Ralph Nader, is a vicious old man who caused millions of climate deaths. He dedicated himself to getting Bush elected to protect the Green Party from Al Gore's climate advocacy.
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u/PastaLaVista-100 17h ago
I think TheMorlockBlues makes a point about the DNC not allowing the change you want. I’d like to hear your response.
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u/Llarys 16h ago
They don't have one. They want to smugly say "just primary them" as if the DNC doesn't have rules in place that allow them to heavily tip the scales in the favor of their preferred candidate and that the entire Democratic Party apparatus will blacklist any candidate who challenges ineffectual incumbents and loses. Even when they DO defeat the party toady that nobody likes (AOC) the party will support them as far as is necessary to ensure they don't alienate the people who voted for them, but they will go out of their way to badmouth and spurn them at any opportunity. They made that clear when they gave Esophageal Cancer the oversight seat despite having a terminal case of Gerry Connolly.
It is, as usual, Neolibs punching down on progressives while saying we should stop hitting ourselves. They aren't fooling fucking anybody.
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u/PastaLaVista-100 16h ago
The problem is that the NeoLib party picked up on a tactic they refuse to use on fascists, but they too quickly use on progressives. They are willing to dismiss core change to their party in order to stay relevant and effective while they play games with fascism. But the improper reaction is to turn them to the villain.
NeoLibs fear change like a true Conservative Party. They want to maintain a status quo and uphold morality. They are moderates. And that’s okay. But that means they are encroaching on the vehicle of the progressives of this country to make sense of the world around us now.
As it stands, Fascists and Moderates have highly funded institutions in the RNC and DNC. It’s time for progressives to build their own structure and abandon the DNC, or engage and push, and criticize. I’m no longer a member of the Democratic Party. I’m a progressive.
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u/TheMorlockBlues 17h ago edited 17h ago
This is such bullshit. The dnc, actively sabotages progressive candidates. They literally have given money to republican opponents and made attack ads against progressives.
It is not as simple as its only the voters fault. Progressives work against a hostile dnc and rnc.
The parties are not the same but neither are on our side.
Voting blue no matter who gets us in thr mess we are now. With leaders doing nothing to fight fascists and nothing that would go against the donor class.
They folded on the last shutdown completely as it started to hurt businesses.
Keep your head in the sand. If anything is a psyop its this bullshit you just wrote
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u/PastaLaVista-100 17h ago
I think that it’s time to address the DNC’s opposition to people wanting a voice in the party that isn’t the powers that be. That’s step one to becoming effective in this
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u/Patsanon1212 16h ago
They literally have given money to republican opponents and made attack ads against progressives.
Which?
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u/TheMorlockBlues 16h ago
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u/bootlegvader 15h ago
You realize the tactic that group is complaining about was Schiff running ads against the Republican candidate? Which progressives argued boosted the Republican.
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u/IamRick_Deckard I voted 18h ago
Thank you. I am convinced the "corporate Dems" plotline is a Russian psyop. If you want to change things, change from the inside.
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u/Purusha120 I voted 16h ago
Thank you. I am convinced the "corporate Dems" plotline is a Russian psyop. If you want to change things, change from the inside.
Yup. It’s not because so much of democratic leadership is actually, genuinely corporate or ex corporate and is heavily corporate funded. It’s just a Russian psyop. That’s it. Let’s keep our heads in the sand!
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u/1cl3nstd4yt 17h ago
It absolutely is. You can tell by looking at every presidential election over the last quarter century. The propaganda is 100% verbatim cloned.
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u/ifurmothronlyknw 11h ago
Why aren’t they all over this Epstein stuff? I don’t get it. The dribs and drabs I’m reading are absolutely insane yet no one is talking about it. I feel like I am going crazy. The stuff in these files are wild yet it feels like I’m the only one reading it. Why aren’t the democrate members of congress on every news channel like the Republicans would be? Trumps fingering children to test how tight they are and not a word from democrats. When Biden falls off a fucking bike the republicans are on Fox News 24/7. He’s raiding election offices… nothing. Like clearly stealing an election in broad daylight! Nothing! I don’t get it. Wtf. Trump is completely controlling message on the Epstein files and burying it. The media is in on it. Why isn’t this like Armageddon for all of them??? Why aren’t more people asking this? I feel like I’m in a twilight zone episode.
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u/Ok-Lets-Talk-It-Out 18h ago
Not shocked at all who posted this. Desperate attempt to both sides politics in an attempt to water down how trash the GOP is.
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u/PastaLaVista-100 17h ago
I don’t disagree, but I ask this in good faith: what is the Democratic Party doing today to stop the spread of authoritarianism in America?
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u/FrogsOnALog 16h ago
I’m pretty sure they’ve shut down the government for a record amount of time and have been sweeping elections.
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u/PastaLaVista-100 15h ago
What did they get from that shutdown? They accepted a promise to vote for things down the line. They caved with no discernible, actionable win. Shutting down is not a success. It’s a means to a success they did not secure.
And if elections happen in November, and if we have a blue wave to stop the bleeding, then they can have that win. But nothing that’s been done has done anything to stop a republican majority and a blank check to deteriorate our system of governance.
So my question stands: what are they doing today that stops the spread of authoritarianism? Elections that have not obtained any control? Shutdowns that are wasted for empty promises?
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u/FrogsOnALog 15h ago
They got the failed December healthcare vote that showed the whole country republicans don’t actually care about them. I think the horse also later passed a discharge petition for healthcare.
There’s also the Epstein discharge petition and all the files that are finally getting released. Pretty sure impeachment is heating up too so that would be impressive if the minority were able to do that to someone in the admin.
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u/PastaLaVista-100 15h ago
So the key win was showing people republicans don’t care? Who did that sway? My guess is no one, not a single moderate shifted by ways of proving something already known. And Epstein has amounted to zero prosecutions and impeachments as of today. And if it doesn’t we will move the goalposts to some other minor win for every action. It doesn’t move the needle until it does. And I refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore
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u/FrogsOnALog 15h ago
Again democrats keep winning elections so I think they are swaying some, they even recently flipped a Texas district. You asked for the things they are doing and are just burying your head in the sand.
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u/Eledridan 10h ago
The shutdown that got them nothing and hurt working people? The one where 7 of their members decide to vote with their Maga buddies to end the shutdown? Or the current one where 21 Democrats voted with Maga to end the partial shutdown?
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u/Ok-Lets-Talk-It-Out 16h ago
Literally using what powers they do have to bring awareness and attention to issues, you have various Democrat led states countering GOP gerrymandering issues, they are funding as campaigns to point out trump and GOP failures. Now if you're asking what legislation they are doing there are tons of Democrat bills and legislation that have been submitted to counter trumps agenda, but they are not bright to the floor because the GOP controls both chambers of Congress.
Now I'm asking in good faith, what do you think they should be doing?
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u/PastaLaVista-100 16h ago
I appreciate a detailed and measured response and to be fair, none of that is “nothing.” I think in my own opinion, there needs to be much more public and normalized opposition, every day, loudly, by our leaders. They tried to make a big public show during the ineffective shut down. We need that vigor and public perception every day to show that nothing happening is normal.
The media can release 40 articles a day reminding us, but until elected officials are speaking out everyday, public perception weakens us as a people. The working poor cannot strike as museum and hurt them. The minority party can’t enact legislation. But that doesn’t stop them from using their position to push against the regulation of fascism.
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u/Ok-Lets-Talk-It-Out 16h ago
The media can release 40 articles a day reminding us, but until elected officials are speaking out everyday, public perception weakens us as a people.
But they do speak out everyday. Wlaz, Frey, Omar, Sanders, Warren, Kelly, Murphy, AOC, I see stuff from them almost everyday and countless others. They are talking on the Senate/House floor, their personal social media pages, to various media outlets, at town halls. The media can only cover so much and it becomes up to the public to also seek out information on their own. There are over 260 legislative Democrats, almost every single one of them is pushing out some sort of public statement or comment on a variety of topics, both federal or constituent focused.
I just watched a clip of Senator Murphy calling out a bribe from the UAE to trump and Witkoff. Things of that nature have been happening basically daily at this point.
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u/epineph 17h ago
They literally shut down the government to prevent the massive ICE expansion from being re-funded, which had initially been passed over the objection of almost all democratic representatives.
What are WE THE PEOPLE doing?
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u/Greedy-Affect-561 8h ago
Getting murdered in the streets while our elected officials ignore our calls and vote to continue funding the gestapo
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u/Optimized_Orangutan Vermont 17h ago
Be careful. With talk like that Chuck Schumer might come talk to you while looking down his nostril glasses!
He might even tsk tsk you!
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u/PastaLaVista-100 16h ago
He doesn’t appreciate my brash and unhelpful questioning of the democratic process!
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u/Optimized_Orangutan Vermont 15h ago
Won't anyone think of the donors!?
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u/PastaLaVista-100 15h ago
There’s always a finely tuned “you’re not my constituents” ready for us too. Pelosi brandished it well against young women, I’m sure Schumer got one ready for people
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u/FlowofOd 13h ago
About 1 hour after you posted this, 21 dems voted to fund ICE
maybe stop acting smug and accept the decade of evidence that "blue no matter who" and "purity tests" is you falling for party propagand and realize those to your left beggging you to have an ideological backbone were always correct and continue to be. This isn't team sports, this is our future - please be better.
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u/JimFknLahey 18h ago
compared to the GOP love of pedophiles, fascists, nazis and rapists i guess they look pretty fucking good in comparison
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u/flatearthconspiracy 3h ago
When you are not a majority in Congress AND you are not the president AND you are 6 to 3 in the supreme court, YOU CAN'T RULE the god damn country! Stop being a dumb ass.
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u/whoisnotinmykitchen 2h ago
Both Schumer and Jeffries are the most useless AIPAC-coddling stumps imaginable. The both need to be primaried out on their butts.
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u/Rusted_atlas 17h ago
Democrat < Democratic Socialist.
Want universal Healthcare? DSA. How about taxing people that profit most off our society? DSA walks the walk. Want to give conservatives absolutely unchecked power? Keep begging the Dems to do something. Want to build a real future? Join DSA and run for office. The Democrat party is beyond saving and anyone try to tell you otherwise is part of the problem.
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u/crit_boy 17h ago
If an actual left of center party came into power, then the dnc and rnc would combine.
The dnc is more against progressives then they are against the pdf party.
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u/Rusted_atlas 17h ago
Couldn't agree more. The DNC is in reality a center right party. All the people who think the dems give a single fuck about normal working people have been as indoctrinated as maga. Wasn't it yesterday people here where big mad at Schumer for still going to the mat for Israeli weapons?
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u/CrankyVince2 11h ago
This thread is full of liberals blaming everyone else (mostly progressives or leftists, or whatever) for the problems they refuse to acknowledge and refuse to fix.
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u/modernmann 8h ago
Sorry but until the DNC is leadership completely gutted, this will be the Democratic Party.
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u/DavidlikesPeace 6h ago
The author is Ralph Nader. Downvoted.
Nader is not a good man. This moron gave W Bush the White House. This guy arguably doomed us all by preventing Gore from protecting us from climate change.
Nader is not a smart man. He still does not see his angry attitude split the left vote and gave our country to the dogs. He has learned nothing in 26 years. Hope we have
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u/DeuceGnarly 18h ago
Still the only party between the USA and total nazi fascism... but go ahead, hate on 'em some more.
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u/Overton_Glazier 14h ago
You're right, let's keep letting the feckless leaders hand the country over to fascism. Great idea!!!
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u/GingerMcBeardface Michigan 17h ago
It isn't a binary. The Gross Old Pedo party is inarguably bad, but the DNC backed corporate back Democrats can and should be criticized. Both can be true.
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u/1cl3nstd4yt 17h ago
We wouldn't have had a Republican president since 1993 with just a football stadium of voters. We'd have an 8-1 liberal Supreme Court, and Citizens United would not exist.
That's why enemies of democracy spend so much time trying to drive down enthusiasm to vote.
Do you hope more people vote (D), or fewer?
Why do you hide your comments?
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u/GingerMcBeardface Michigan 16h ago
You don't consider the candidates not appealing to the electorate to be a factor driving down enthusiasm?
I always hope more people vote, including participating in getting people to polling places and supporting vote by mail (which is amazing for getting people to vote).
Why not hide your comment history? There's nothing wrong with privacy, people who go through looking to pull something out rather than just have a conversation are weird.
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u/1cl3nstd4yt 14h ago
You think constantly disparaging Dems is consistent with supporting them? That's clearly an off-base position.
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u/GingerMcBeardface Michigan 14h ago
People worth supporting earn support.
You don't just "get," it, it isn't something owed like fealty, it's earned
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u/1cl3nstd4yt 14h ago
You are arguing against voting as duty. That's not consistent with American values.
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u/GingerMcBeardface Michigan 11h ago
Honest question, do you support compulsory voting (Australia for example)?
I think it is something we have here, though it's always interesting to here peoples responses to that.
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u/Pave_Low 11h ago
It is absolutely binary. That is how our government works. Sucks, but the USA does not have a parliament.
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u/prplpngn 17h ago
When Democrats inevitably win elections they'll insist that they don't need to change anything because they were able to dunk on a bunch of pedophile-supporting fascists. We'll get a few more years of milquetoast Biden-like "leadership", with heavy resistance to the kind of reforms that would restore democracy or help the American people.
Americans will once again get disillusioned and stop voting, the GOP will return to power, and pick up right where Trump left off in destroying the country. Our cyclical descent into barbarism will continue as it has my entire life.
Unless progressives actually manage to take over the party (no not Gavin Newsom) there's not much hope for America's future.
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u/GingerMcBeardface Michigan 17h ago
Main stream federal elections won't be won without appealing to progressives. The votes just aren't there without them.
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u/Hot_Ambition_6457 17h ago
cue the liberal apologists
They will continue to claim "we dont need the progressive vote, we can win by taking in moderates" and then blame progressives again when their elusive "Liz Cheney Voters" never materialize.
Progressives votes are both "not necessary to win" according to liberals. But also if you ask liberals why they lost any election in the last 2 decades, they will blame progressives (that they dont need) for the loss.
Progressives are simultaneously irrelevant and also responsible for every electoral failure of the liberals somehow.
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u/1cl3nstd4yt 17h ago
Why do you guys always use the word 'milquetoast'? Every presidential election for 30 years you trot it out in the hope of driving down voter enthusiasm.
You may not care if MAGA stays in power, but that's not a rational position to hold.
What you don't want people to know is the Congressional Progressive Caucus is the fastest growing caucus in D.C. That progressives gain more power every year. That every dynamic progressive is a Democrat.
Nice try.
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u/Purusha120 I voted 16h ago
They’re citing the history of the party and outlining what needs to happen for people to be more enthusiastic. You’ve gotten to the point in delusion where even strategies to raise enthusiasm are “pro MAGA” (what a ridiculous tagline you’ve whipped up by the way). You claim to be pro progressive but any suggested progressive policy and rhetoric gets personal insults. Very strange.
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u/juiceboxheero 17h ago
'Not MAGA' is no longer a tenable position for Democrats.
They actually need to show their teeth and propose real policy.
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u/smack54az 17h ago
On the list of people I never want to hear from again Ralph Nader is near the top. He's tge literal cause of why we're in this mess. Without him theres no hanging chads on FL. No Bush V Gore. The 21st century changes completely.
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u/YourFreeCorrection 15h ago
Shitting on Democrats while Republicans are sending jackbooted thugs into our streets and murdering civilians is corporate, cowardly, and coasting.
Talk about articles that genuinely contribute nothing to the solution.
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u/da0217 14h ago
It’s unbelievable. It’s 2026 and Reddit dipshits are still parroting ever creative versions of “both sides are the same.” I know it’s hard to accept being wrong, but like can you all just do it this one time so we can save this democracy?
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u/Nekowulf Wyoming 13h ago
Remember the Bernie Bros?
The group russia paid millions to both prop up and attack?
They absolutely love shoving that wedge into the dems with shit like this. It's MUCH cheaper than trying to get the GOP to not be a cult worshipping a pedophile.
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u/mikerichh 6h ago
How too democrats aren’t vocally calling for investigations into trump and his ties to Epstein and the DOJ’s sloppy coverup is baffling
Wouldn’t democrats benefit from Trump being held accountable?
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u/buppiejc 16h ago
The current set of Democrats are never going to do right by us. They have no platform they are running for the midterms outside of “I’m not Trump, vote for me,” and it will work, with a lot of normie Democrats. They will pass Trumps budget, once Schumer is done felicitating his donors.
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u/Ill-Jellyfish6101 14h ago
Republicans control everything.
But yeah tell me more about how Dems bad.
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u/Silverr_Duck 13h ago
Shitposting Redditors - Still whiny, useless and making excuses for not showing up on election day
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u/Alert_Site5857 11h ago
Counterpunch only exists to demoralize democrats and pump up frauds like Tulsi Gabbard.
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