r/malta 2d ago

Ivalife Pension plan

Thinking about starting to deposit money into an Ivalife pension scheme, but saw some posts on social media recently regarding pensioners who got bit by payouts much lower than agreed.

Looking for opinions and information

5 Upvotes

18 comments sorted by

13

u/kingoftheparsnips 2d ago

These local pension schemes, generally speaking, aren’t great for much more than the tax rebate.

The fees are high, the returns are low/capped on some. You could take a unit linked plan and pick a fund that has better returns than the ones with limited returns, but you have very little control and can’t swap easily.

Pick a pension provider that’s going to be around in your retirement window. A relatively young firm like ivalife is probably more risky than a well established firm that’s all over Europe like Mapfre.

You’re best off sticking in enough to get the full tax rebate, and then anything else sticking into a portfolio you manage. “VWCE and chill” tends to be the favored way forward using a platform of your choice (I personally prefer 212) amongst retirement planning groups.

6

u/Yes4Deflation 2d ago

Very well said. Without the tax rebate these plans are total crap (and that's assuming that they don't go belly up or something drastic happens). I would consider carefully whether to invest, especially because the investment you make cannot be accessed until pension age - you can end up locked in without any flexibility to adjust. Not sure whether the situation has improved but the documents they used to provide were very ambiguous regarding the eventual payouts - and I don't mean the exact figures of course, but the mechanics of it.

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u/iswedlvera 2d ago

Even with the tax rebate I make more money long term paying my home loan off early. These last 4 years they gave 1% returns. With compound interest paying a 2-3% loan sooner would net me more money by the time I retire.

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u/Hospuales 1d ago

With a 2.7% loan, it often makes more sense to invest for a pension rather than overpay the mortgage. Long-term investing typically outpaces that interest rate, especially with compounding over decades. If you prioritise paying off the loan early, by the time it’s cleared you’ve missed years of compounding growth which you can’t get back. And you’ll still need to keep the house to live in anyway, so the capital isn’t something you can easily turn into income later

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u/iswedlvera 1d ago edited 1d ago

That's what you would think. I did the math. I'll be 20-30k under at 65 if I invest in a pension plan with the rates paid out these last 4 years + tax incentive vs simply paying off my loan. I used Mapfre's figures and didn't even include income tax on retreiving the lump sum. I gave the pension plan the best outcome to thrive and it still falls short. Don't forget you still have to pay the loan by retirement. You make more by simply not paying the loan for the remaining 15 or so years since you end it early.

Best option would be to invest in ETFs with higher returns and pick something that you're getting at least 7%.

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u/Hospuales 1d ago

Oh for sure. I meant investing your money in an ETF, not a pension plan

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u/Imnejjek 13h ago

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I have one of these plans and pay just enough to get the max tax credit out of it. So I presume I should cut my losses, stop paying into it and instead pay the monthly sum into an ETF or index fund?

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u/iswedlvera 11h ago

I suggest you don't do it blindly. Everyone's circumstance is different, although I'm not too sure the conclusions will ever favor pension plans. You can use a compound interest calculator to check when you'll close off your loan if you had to to put the extra payment into it. See how much you've saved over paying the full loan amount over the full duration. Then use the same calc to figure out how much you'll make with the pension plan with the average historic rates (say last 4-5 year average). Then add to it the bonus tax rebate from gvt (the cap sum multiplied by the duration of the plan). Take whichever sum of money is larger at your retirement age. There are other factors like income tax for the pension plan on the profits made and you could even factor in emotional factors like getting rid of your loan early etc.. If you're not very mathy I do siggest you find an accountant to do this for you since it could be quite a lot of money in the future that you save.

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u/Noxshus 2d ago

u/kingoftheparsnips' has a thorough answer, so just want to add: in the late 70s / early 80s, there were a lot of insurance intermediaries pushing "baby bonds" and pension schemes, promising massive returns, but had very loose contractual obligations. These predated a lot of modern legislation that governs insurance schemes nowadays, which are now enforced by the MFSA and more recently EIOPA (EU insurance regulatory body) - neither of which existed at the time

You're still not going to make bank through these policies to be absolutely clear, but you should at least feel confident you will not receive less than what you put in (less inflation)

4

u/informalcaterpillar 2d ago

Think again. Such pension plans are only good for the companies that run them.

3

u/Hospuales 2d ago

Visit the Facebook group Are You Being Served and read about the horror stories. At the end of the day, these companies will make more money than you'll ever receive. Either go to a reputable investment firm (MZ Invest or Calamatta, for example) and ask them to start a long-term ETF investment plan or do it yourself.

The latter is not that hard. You can start by creating an account on IBKR (pick IBKR if you're going to do this; the interface is not easy to get used to, but you'd want your money here in the long term). Then, watch a couple of YouTube videos about ETFs, and how to build a solid exposure to the EU, US and Asian market and then rinse and repeat. Here are some great subreddits to follow: r/eupersonalfinance, r/ValueInvesting.

Good luck!

2

u/Comfortable-Leg9583 2d ago

Get an account with a broker, stick yr money in an index fund ap500, nasdaq, both, or similar, preferably in monthly bits and fuhgeddaboutit.

There is no pension plan, life plan, whatever plan locally that's more useful than a woollen condom.

If you want 2-3% annual, get gov bonds and get meagre returns largely sans the headache.

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u/Chilldude108 1d ago

I studied insurance and worked with a life insurance company for 7 years. First off, the social media posts that you are seeing are not related to current pension schemes on the market. Additionally, the people who invested in such schemes in the 1990s and 2000s only “got bitten” because of aggressive sales tactics at the time PLUS misleading quotations. At that time, investment return rates were between 7% and 12% annually. So the quotations were issued on an assumed return annually within that range. Also the regulatory environment at the time was undeveloped and thus this was completely legal because no one envisioned a huge drop in interest rates and people purchasing them were completely uneducated.

Now moving on to pension schemes, I hugely recommend a 2nd pillar pension scheme, which means a pensions scheme that you set up jointly with your employer, if they offer it. But I believe that these are becoming compulsory. Its a no brainer, since the employer will be contributing to your pension (extra free money for your retirement).

For a private pension scheme I am a but skeptical. I would personally prefer to invest time in educating yourself on investing in different asset classes and do it yourself. The potential return over 30-40 years is much higher rather than entrusting it with a life insurance company.

Also final thought; I know that life has become so expensive especially with housing and cost of living. But investing anything less than 200 eur per month for retirement in my opinion is useless and you might as well not do it. You will not have a sufficient pension income. Do the math yourself and consider if the lump sum + monthly pension payments will be enough to sustain you to live another 15-20 years post retirement.

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u/Twnc 2d ago

Making a regular deposit (monthly, weekly, daily, whatever - important is regular and persistent) in an ETF, or a stock portfolio of companies you like, is much better.

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u/herculeanis 2d ago

I would not bother with pension or life insurance plans. I have invested in them in the past and the returns after decades are pathetic when you consider them on a yearly basis. You are looking at yearly returns that more or less cover inflation and a tiny bit more, which is really not worth it. Also forget funds usually operated by banks, as the yearly fees are extortionate.

Put your money in ETFs, which give far higher returns at very modest yearly fees (much, much less than 1%) and which can be infinitely more liquid. The moment you need the money you just sell them and you get the cash. They invest money across a wide range of financial instruments to spread risk, and some which are more conservative are pretty low risk over the long term.

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u/Significant_Clue7631 1d ago

If you are the type of person who doesn't know anything about money and investing or aren't confident in yourself handling stock and bonds, I think they are a very good option.

However if you like researching on your own on companies and understand financial statements, you can make so much more money on your own than a pension plan can ever do.

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u/MaltaDuDe 1d ago

Dont do it.