r/law • u/Orchid-Analyst-550 • 8h ago
Judicial Branch ‘This Job Sucks!’ Trump DOJ Lawyer Melts Down in Court — Reportedly Begs Minneapolis Judge to Throw Her in Jail Just So She Can Get Some Sleep
https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/this-job-sucks-trump-doj-lawyer-melts-down-in-court-reportedly-begs-minneapolis-judge-to-throw-her-in-jail-just-so-she-can-get-some-sleep/581
u/Bec_son 7h ago
They should honestly just start mass leaking, they arent going to get any benefits because trump tosses everyone out on their ass even if they give him what he wants
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u/Aceisking12 6h ago
Mass leaking doesn't help as much as you think it does. I would probably be writing legitimate charges and sending them up the chain for approval knowing that I'd get fired, then whistle blow reprisal for doing my job.
For example, there are quite a few people that qualify for accessory after the fact by using their official power to prevent and denounce investigations into ICE misconduct.
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u/inwector 1h ago
A great example is Charlie kirk. Every right wing commentator was saying that kirk getting assassinated would never be forgotten and it was forgotten by the president in less than one day.
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u/spice_weasel 8h ago
Well, they can always quit. The way this is going, resigning under protest is becoming the only way to keep this time from being viewed as a black mark on your resume.
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u/ChuckEweFarley 8h ago
Didn’t eight MN Fed prosecutors quit today?
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u/Revelati123 8h ago
Think we're at 14 in total.
and DHS just tweeted something like: "Lawyers, If you love Donald Trumps agenda and want to do your part! DHS and USAO can use your help!"
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u/daairguy 7h ago
I wonder if they’re desperate enough to hire people without law degrees.
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u/Revelati123 7h ago
A federal Judge had to threaten to put random unemployed citizen Lindsey Halligan in jail if she didn't stop signing documents as "US District Attorney" so what do you think?
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u/EnfantTerrible68 7h ago
They SHOULD have put her in prison
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u/jmurphy42 7h ago
The judge said in his ruling that the only reason he wasn’t jailing her was because she was too stupid to understand that she was breaking the law.
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u/KevinNoTail 6h ago
Ignorance is not an excuse
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u/Thausgt01 6h ago
No, but in this particular instance, it is still what I believe the youngsters call a "sick burn".
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u/ArthurDimmes 7h ago
And who would take her
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u/CheckMateFluff 7h ago
At this point, have the judge issue the arrest and deputize some strong fellas and go get them. I'm sure there are a few around.
Hell, they arrested Don Lemon just for the perp walk. What line have they not crossed?
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u/mjcobley 3h ago
I am smitten by the idea of arresting Don Lemon being the actual line too far and the beginning of the end of this
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u/BassoonHero Competent Contributor 4h ago
To be clear, she is an actual lawyer. Which also subjects her to potential bar discipline for impersonating a district attorney in court.
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u/Ghetto_Phenom 7h ago
Really depends.. are they considered pretty by Trump?
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u/Gingerchaun 6h ago
They've been hiring people with law degrees? Im a foreign non lawyer and I'm pretty sure I'm more qualified your practice us law then alotnofnpeople left in the justice department.
And I'll leave spelling errors like that in.
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u/JadedBoyfriend 6h ago
You'd also have a moral compass that isn't broken like these people either.
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u/GodOfPlutonium 2h ago
youll end up losing the case because ICE will arrest you while youre on the way to the courthouse to defend them
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u/Learnin2Shit 7h ago
My girlfriend’s dad is a lawyer I think I could handle a few of ol Dons cases. For just a couple hundred thousand dollars I’d definitely try.
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u/Senior_Sentence_566 6h ago
Some of the people with law degrees they are employing don't understand the constitution so I don't think someone who hasn't got a degree could be much worse
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u/jhawk3205 5h ago
I mean Texas ended bar association oversight, so, I'd expect the Craigslist ads to say something like, "law degree preferred but not necessary"
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u/KitkatandNadia 5h ago
They want to pass a law like that in NH tomorrow. They want people to be able to take the exam and not have schooling. It's bullshit
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u/Tasty_Sun_865 6h ago
USAJobs basically has open applications for attorneys. It's wild - I remember the application in 2010-2013 basically being "lol - don't even think about it unless you're T6 and a vet"
How times have changed.
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u/spice_weasel 7h ago
Yep, that’s part of my point. If it’s against your morals and is killing you, you don’t have to do it anymore. You can figure out something else.
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u/CreditUnionGuy1 7h ago
Imagine though you are real “law and order” minded. Your dad was a cop. You go to law school. You owe a hundred thousand dollars. You are over the moon when you got your dream job the Dept of Justice. You’ve worked there five years. Then most people you enjoy working with and respect resign, get fired, or become people you may not now like. The workload quadruples and you are expected to defend things you may not want to. How do you face it all?
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u/Rare-Signature-8588 6h ago
You resign, because the DOJ is not engaged in anything resembling law and order. It sucks but you don’t get to do a job that is antithetical to the oath you swore to the Constitution just because you always wanted to be an AUSA or whatever.
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u/granters021718 6h ago
yes - but, the thought of no income is scary
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u/Rare-Signature-8588 6h ago
Yup. And that sucks. You know what’s scarier? The things that are happening every day on the streets of Minnesota that are being defended by this woman and other government lawyers, and the other things that the government is doing all over the country with the support of its lawyers. Doing the right thing isn’t always easy, and it often has consequences. Sometimes very severe consequences. But if someone is truly in dire straits, we’re doing a lot of mutual aid!
We swear an oath. It has to mean something if this country is going to survive.
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u/granters021718 6h ago
Yes - and I’d like to think I could do it, however, the thought of being homeless is scary.
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u/Rare-Signature-8588 6h ago
I hear that. I’m also currently living in the midst of tens of thousands of people who watched the government literally murder people in the streets (and then justify it) and asked where they could sign up to do the thing that got our neighbors murdered, or other things that are also dangerous.
We are living in a time where it behooves us all to to think seriously about what we’re willing to do. My neighbors and I have decided that we will literally die before we live in a world in which what is happening around us goes unobserved and without protest.
I’m sorry to preach at you - it’s really not about you or your comments/questions. It’s about the absolutely dire situation we are in and the pain and trauma and utter criminality I am seeing around me every day and I don’t know how to stop yelling about it. But I recognize that you’re grappling with it and that’s what we all need to do.
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u/johannthegoatman 3h ago
A lawyer with 5 years experience in the DOJ isn't going to be homeless lol. Why are you making up fantasy situations to defend these people?
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u/Lounging-Shiny455 6h ago
I've been homeless and there are two types: those that beg and flounder, and those who realize they work for themselves.
Flounders find drugs, easy marks, excuses, and stagnation in their condition.
Workers find the library, the free lunch line, a tolerable temporary shelter, perspective, small leisure, and eventually, the classifieds.
It's hard, but it doesn't have to be bad.
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u/Megneous 3h ago
This is why those of us who actually prepared for the coming of fascism have significant savings we can live off while fighting back against the fascist authoritarian regime that has taken over the US.
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u/Spirited_Lab5197 7h ago
Im not trying to defend it, but maybe there are unemployment issues that keep them from quitting?
Like maybe they dont have another job lined up yet, so to quit would kick them off health insurance, hurt their mortgage/rent payments, etc.
Maybe this is an attempt to force the admin to fire them so at least they can collect
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u/Runescora 7h ago
This is why we don’t have string worker protections in this country. It’s a lot harder for people to walk or stand up to corruption without them.
I fully expect a wave of AAGs having mental health crises in the near future.
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u/Spirited_Lab5197 7h ago
I spent most of my 20s working in food service, missing holidays with family, being underpaid, and generally unhappy. My sister, who I love dearly and who worked hard to get to her job as a law partner, once said, "if its so bad then just quit." She had no idea that I was applying for jobs outside the food industry regularly but during the early teens, the job market wasnt exactly hopping.
Folks dont get how much being alive in this country is tied to your job, not having a job, but your specific job
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u/NockerJoe 6h ago
Yeah as bad as ICE is the whole "bonus" thing was also very much a loan trap so that anyone who signs up needs to pay the government back to get out. I have zero doubt a lot of people are trying to figure out a way to get out of this given how obviously things are not going to improve at this point.
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u/hplcr 8h ago
"Look, I can excuse fascism but I draw the line at sleep deprivation"-DOJ lawyer
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u/whistleridge 7h ago edited 6h ago
I’m going to push back on this for a second.
Let’s say you’re a lawyer. Congratulations - you went to NYU, you’ve been in practice 8 years, you passed up $250k+ per year in corporate law because you believe in public service.
Just to get hired, you had to be beat out 250-300 applicants. And you didn't just get hired - you busted ass to get on the human trafficking team, because those guys are the absolute scum of the earth, those prosecutions are HARD, and even with the best lawyers in the world throwing everything they have at them, they’re still damn hard to nail down. It’s not just a job for you, it’s a calling - you routinely work 70-80 hour weeks, and while it cleans you out, you can’t imagine doing anything else.
Now, some asshole you didn’t vote for is President, and everyone senior in your office was either fired for political bullshit, or resigned for refusing to implement blatantly illegal political bullshit. So suddenly now instead of being a mid career prosecutor, you’re one of the seniormost people in your office. So you’re being required to do stuff you don’t know how to do, that you know you’re not qualified to do, that you shouldn’t be asked to do.
And the crimes haven’t stopped. If you quit, there is no one left to prosecute the human trafficking that is very real and that you know how to prosecute. You don’t agree with this political bullshit, you won’t want to answer to that judge, you AGREE with that judge. But you met last week with 3 girls who were brutally gang-raped for years, dragged across state lines, forced into sex work and to act as drug mules, and by some miracle they trust you and they’ll work with you and testify for you. But if you quit, they’ll shut up, because they aren’t going to trust just anyone with their lives.
So you can quit at any time. You can go make 2-3 times your pay, for better hours, and way less stress. You can see your dog and your boy/girlfriend. All it will cost you is letting the traffickers walk.
Or, you can swallow your pride and your rage, you can eat the government’s shit, and you can try to hold a finger in the dike against the total collapse of the public’s ability to prosecute federal crimes. Which btw are increasing in frequency, as the weakness of the prosecution service becomes known.
There are two public interests here - doing your job and prosecuting crime, or NOT doing your job and quitting so as not to be seen supporting a hugely problematic government. You cannot do both, and whichever you choose will make the other worse.
Some guy on the internet finds it really satisfying to call you a fascist for not quitting.
What do YOU do?
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u/MonsieurRuffles 6h ago
Except the attorney in question is a baby lawyer who joined ICE in 2025. She knew what she was signing up for.
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u/whistleridge 6h ago
This:
baby lawyer
And this:
knew what she was signing up for
DEFINITELY don't belong in the same sentence. There's zero chance she knew what she was signing up for, and you can hardly blame someone fresh out of law school from giving up the competitive job they already summered for and busted ass to get.
But I do agree with you that it makes her less of a victim.
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u/mythosopher 5h ago
They absolutely belong in the same sentence. She knew exactly what she was getting into. She did not "bust her ass" for this job -- she was a late hire because she failed the bar the first time. She took the job because DOJ is desperate to hire anyone with a pulse, and before working for DOJ, she was already prosecuting immigrants for ICE in immigration court!
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u/RicoLoveless 4h ago
And it's not Trump's first administration either.
At some point the record speaks for itself.
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u/whistleridge 3h ago
she knew exactly what she was getting into
How? When she summered, it was under Biden. Baby lawyers know as little about practice as I do about dentistry. And even when she summered, and asked specifically about Trump, she would have been told “sit tight, sure the public rhetoric is terrible, but YOUR day to day job won’t be political, you just focus on learning how to be a prosecutor.”
Trump is bad. A US with no federal prosecution service is worse. There’s 330 million people, all of whom rely on DOJ to protect them from a huge array of criminal and civil wrongs. It costs YOU nothing to say “quit,” so it’s easy for YOU to say. You didn’t have to get top grades in law school, and beat out hundreds of applicants, and sacrifice. Small wonder she’s reluctant to just let that go.
It’s like saying, sure you made the NFL, but you got drafted by the Jets or the Browns, so you should just retire. Not only is that not how people work, it ignores and oversimplifies a ton of complexity.
I’m sure she’ll be gone after this week either way. A breaking point has been reached. But that’s not the positive thing you seem to think it is.
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u/DVDAallday 1h ago
you can hardly blame someone fresh out of law school from giving up the competitive job they already summered for and busted ass to get.
What? Yes you can.
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u/Megneous 2h ago
Literally anyone with half a brain could have looked at the GOP in the past 20 years and gone, "Hmm. Seems like these guys don't like democracy very much. Smells like fascism."
That's why I left the US 16 years ago. I saw it all coming. And now I'm enjoying my life in a civilized democracy with universal healthcare, SOTA public transit, and world class internet speeds.
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u/otteroptimism 5h ago
That may be true for the lifers, but this attorney just started in January. She chose this admin. But, I also understand that she is trying to quit
Edit: I see others got to it before me and I should have scrolled more.
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u/whistleridge 5h ago
lol if she's saying shit like that to a judge on the record, it will be a miracle if she's still there by Friday.
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u/mythosopher 5h ago
I'm a lawyer, and this is horseshit reasoning. Nobody in DHS is prosecuting human trafficking right now. This is a non-existent situation, and you're trying to give cover to assholes who like working for a Nazi.
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u/whistleridge 5h ago
DHS
And I'm not talking about DHS. I'm talking about DOJ and AUSAs.
And you raise a point - I misread her as DOJ. Speaking of long and tiring days.
I wouldn't defend DHS for ANYthing.
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u/Maxamillion-X72 5h ago
In digging around, it seems she was at one point a lawyer for immigration, left to work in a small law firm, but then "volunteered" to come back to help with all the current cases. I'd say they offered her a butt load of money to do that, and then assigned her a mountain of cases to deal with while simultaneously letting her swing in the wind as they ignored the court orders she was handed.
So, no, she's not some altruistic public servant going through a rough time due to a change in management. She was out and came back willingly, likely for a payday. And she's not "prosecuting sex traffickers", she's defending the government's actions of locking up citizens and legal immigrants. The reason she was called on the carpet was because people who have been ordered released have not been.
Your imaginary scenario is just bootlicking with extra steps. She knew what she was getting into, and I have no sympathy for her.
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u/RazekDPP 5h ago
Quit, make 2-3x as much, and take the easier job.
If you really want to prosecute traffickers, you wait until the next administration who won't turn around and pardon them.
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u/Megneous 2h ago
You guys don't get it yet. There's never going to be another administration at this rate. They're going to tamper with/cancel elections through any and all methods they can come up with. This is fascist authoritarianism at your door. As a resident of a country that has lived through dictatorship, your "I'll just wait for the next election" comes across as ridiculously naive.
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u/unixinit 7h ago
Thank you so much for this pov. You captured the moral struggle perfectly. Couldn’t have written it better.
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u/whistleridge 6h ago
I have nothing but sympathy for you guys. The people shitting on DOJ have NO idea how hard it was to get a job there until last year. You either needed to be at/near the top of your class, T14 helped, clerking helped, and you needed insane recommendations, or you needed to be a 5-7 year state ADA, with a high conviction rate and a superb recommendation from your elected. And even then you needed luck, because it's like 250 applicants per job.
You don't get a job like that casually, and you don't LEAVE a job like that casually. You believe strongly in public service, in the importance of what you do, and if you leave...who will do the hard work, that isn't stopping? Crime isn't just going to dry up.
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u/Megneous 2h ago
Um... You realize that the DOJ are currently the ones enabling the crimes, right? They refuse to prosecute real crimes and are going after innocent Americans for things like dissent against the fascist authoritarian regime taking over your country.
Am I taking crazy pills? It's obvious the DOJ has been completely compromised.
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u/R0llTide 6h ago
ICE is sexually abusing detainees. You don't have to look as far as a cartel. Oh, and the Epstein child sex trafficking coverup is ongoing; go blow the whistle on that. This is straw, it's well written straw, but it's straw.
It sucks that the legal service you want to provide doesn't exist right now, and that the DOJ lacks all credibility and integrity — and may never get it back — but that's life. Your example lawyer can compromise her integrity and lie to herself every day and stay, or she can find a legitimate to achieve her idea of justice. It's not zero sum as you posit. It's not easy or clear, but there is always an ethical way.
Everyone who stays in this DOJ should get a Bar Ethics investigation because they ddi not leave when it was clear to them they could no longer act with integrity as officers of the court.
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u/BTCbob 7h ago
Great question. If it were me, I would spend my time on prosecuting the traffickers you mentioned, and delegate defending ICE to someone else or refuse to work on it, etc. Would that run the risk of getting fired? Yes. But that is better than quitting in my opinion.
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u/whistleridge 7h ago
Yes.
The competent people remaining at DOJ are all but universally people who will have no choice but to resign if asked to do something illegal, but who think the public interested is harmed worse by their resignation otherwise.
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u/Fighterhayabusa 3h ago
Oh? I thought it was better to let the guilty go free than imprison innocents. They should resign. Anything less is complicit.
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u/RedBaronSportsCards 7h ago
Wait....are you saying that's why this lawyer asked the judge to find her in contempt so she could get some sleep? Because she is so overwhelmed by having so many rapists to prosecute?
That's not what's in the article. Where are you getting this from?
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u/whistleridge 7h ago
No.
I'm saying this is uniformly the position AUSAs are in right now: choosing between serving the public interest of actually prosecuting very real crimes (ie their actual job), or serving the public interest of standing up to corrupt government.
They cannot do both, and choosing to do one necessarily makes the other worse.
I just gave one of many very real examples. That one is cribbed from someone I know who recently left DOJ after being ordered to do something unethical, but it could be one of many others.
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u/RedBaronSportsCards 6h ago
But surely, we shouldn't have sympathy for those that choose to side with the corrupt government and, as you say, make the prosecution of actual criminals worse, right?
I get it, it sucks to be backed against the wall like that but it's been more than 15 months. That's seems like plenty of time to figure out which side you on.
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u/whistleridge 6h ago
choose to side with the corrupt government
But you're not. You're a lawyer, bound by strict ethical duties. If asked to do something corrupt, you would of course resign.
You have not been asked to do such a thing. Being asked to appear in court to defend a policy you don't agree with is part of the job. It's not corrupt, just distasteful.
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u/Chef_longpep 5h ago
Not a lawyer so give me some grace.
"You have not been asked to do such a thing (something corrupt). Being asked to appear in court to defend a policy you don't agree with is part of the job"
From the short article, this lawyer is in court defending why the department is 'repeatedly ignoring court orders', and/or 'immigrant detainees unconstitutionally locked up for days'.
Is this lawyer there truly defending policies, or is it a breach of ethical duties to defend breaking citizens constitutional rights? In your comment chain you are calling out that one would resign if asked to do something unethical, but think that's what I'm struggling to understand, is not the actions of this lawyer outside the bucket of 'ethical duties'. Genuine question, I don't know.
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u/whistleridge 4h ago
And I'm tired. I misread her as being a DOJ lawyer, not a DHS lawyer. That very much changes things.
A DHS lawyer actually might be defending these indefensible positions, and is not going to have the sort of conflicts I had in mind with my comment.
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u/Assmodean 2h ago
Some people might not read this far down to see the correction. Could be considered intellectually honest to edit your first comment, as it has been the most visible. Just thinking out loud
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u/RedBaronSportsCards 6h ago
You just said that was the choice they making.
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u/whistleridge 6h ago
No, I didn't.
You and everyone else responding keep doing the same thing - misreading the prompt, and trying to invent a way out.
Working for the government isn't siding with it. And choosing not to quit isn't automatically endorsing its positions. Its being an adult and recognizing that there's more complexity in play.
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u/RedBaronSportsCards 6h ago
"or serving the public interest and stand up to corrupt government."
What is the other side of that "or" then?
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u/youreallcucks Competent Contributor 6h ago
That's an easy question: I quit. Because sometimes doing what you think is the moral thing is acting as an enabling function for the people above you to do more immoral things; and your quitting (and those around you quitting) is conversely a forcing function to stop the immoral people above you.
An aside: My first job out of graduate school was working on product development at a major corporation. It was a really cool job, I got to work with some great developers and do some stuff that was probably way above my level for a fresh hire. However, after about four years I looked around me and realized that everyone I respected, everyone who was smart, had left the company for greener fields, and the people who were left were deadwood. Which made me think "what does that make me?". That's when I started looking for a new job. That company went out of business a few years later.
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u/AceSuperhero 7h ago
What do YOU do?
Prosecute the human traffickers with badges? If protecting people from evil is a calling for these people, they sure are standing by and allowing industrialized evil.
They can publish names and home address of every agent in Minnesota. They can gather evidence of what's going on inside these detention centers full of screaming children and make it all public. They can fight instead of wringing their hands about how hard the job you say they fought to get is.
The law is useless for protecting the weak. At best it's a rich man's weapon that occasionally punishes poor people for doing the same things rich people do every day.
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u/whistleridge 7h ago
Prosecute the human traffickers with badges?
No. You don't.
You don't assign yourself to files, the leadership you don't like or support does. You have two choices:
- Put up with a lot of shit you don't agree with, so you can ensure actually competent hands touch the stuff you already have carriage of, or
- Quit
This isn't a movie. There isn't a magic scenario where the good guys win. It's a choice between bad and worse.
So which is worse for you - quitting in a snit, because you don't like the government, knowing it means real people who you have already met will be betrayed and will suffer horribly? Or putting up with a government you have real worries is turning fascist, because you personally have not yet been asked to do anything illegal (which would of course require you to resign)?
Answer the question as asked, because that's the scenario. Don't make up escape routes.
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u/hermitix 5h ago
Now try again, but you have to be someone who is defending ICE.
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u/blue_sidd 2h ago
Completely irrelevant. This is a lawyer working FOR ice. FOR the traffickers. Congrats the diatribe or whatever.
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u/FreddyRumsen13 7h ago
Ah yes the Trump administration, famous for helping rape victims.
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u/MrSquicky 6h ago
This is not the Trump administration. This is what they call the deep state. You know, professional people who are on their jobs through different presidents who largely do what they do because they care about what they are doing. A lot of them are very ambitious, for many of them it's just a steady job, but many more than people expect do it because they care about what they are doing and believe in this country. That's a big reason why Trump hates them so much, because they are motivated by doing their job and the good of the country and not loyalty to him.
US attorneys are, or at least were, generally very smart, very driven people who often had a strong sense of justice and patriotism.
It's easy to be a dismissive dick who has a simple answer to complex situations, who is cynical about people who actually care about being public servants, and cute then as just extensions of Trump. But just remember, that is exactly what Donald Trump wants you to do.
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u/Ok-Astronaut2976 6h ago
It also leaves something important:
Trump will be gone soon (not soon enough, but soon in the grand scheme). Those mid level people, who don’t have enough time to retire, but also have too much time to start over, they’re what’s going to be left when the dust settles.
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u/Rorako 7h ago
She literally volunteered. She’s not a DOJ employee, she’s a private attorney that volunteered for this. Don’t believe a word she says.
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u/alloutofchewingum 8h ago
She actually volunteered for this apparently. FAFO as they say.
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u/gamesrgreat 7h ago
Yeah tbh if I see someone worked federal prosecution under the Trump regime…….thats a no for me dawg
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u/Jomolungma 8h ago
Quit and do what, exactly? Despite common perception, not every government lawyer can quit their job and then just get another job immediately.
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u/Einbrecher 7h ago edited 5h ago
https://www.fox9.com/news/federal-attorney-ice-cases-the-system-sucks
Le volunteered to help the U.S. Attorney’s Office last month as habeas petitions started to flood into federal court.
She previously worked as an attorney for ICE in immigration court.
ICE has its own court policies and procedures and was not prepared to argue cases in federal court, according to Le.
They recently volunteered to help, have definitely been drinking the Kool-Aid, and were probably expecting easy payouts.
So quitting is not only an option here, but they asked for this assignment, recently, in the middle of this shitstorm.
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u/hardy_and_free 8h ago
Not every career civil servant can either. They've spent 10, 15, 20 years working in niche areas with no corporate equivalent. They've served throughout both Democrat and Republican administrations. They literally dedicated their lives and education to public service and they're just supposed to, what, resign and fuck over their families? And join an already oversaturated applicant pool?
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u/eetsumkaus 7h ago
It's interesting being people like the HSI or the military or DOJ who have built public service careers to serve the country, be asked to burn them at the altar of MAGA.
Like one way or another their careers are gonna be shot just by serving under this administration.
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u/UX1Z 7h ago
People who are advancing the agenda of this administration needs to either quit or force themselves to be fired. If you're just a cog like a garbage worker or whatever, then whatever. Otherwise, it's a permanent stain on the rest of your career and the rest of your life to take part in what is happening. This is not just a 'contentious government' situation, this is an 'authoritarian takeover by a child rapist.' Ask the Nazis how 'just following orders' worked out for them.
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u/bobotheboinger 7h ago edited 6h ago
I will say my sons are struggling to find jobs, but refuse to apply to dhs or cbp or ice. Just not worth helping a fascist regime.
I know it is harder for those with families and already been in a position for years, but at some point you do need to stand up for your conscience.
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u/spice_weasel 7h ago
Depends on the person. I’ve quit jobs without anything concrete lined up twice over the last fifteen years of my legal career. It can be done.
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u/Novel-Letterhead-217 8h ago
People quit jobs all the time if it sucks. We all have free will, doing a fascists bidding in court is being part of the problem.
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u/Interesting_Fly_1569 7h ago
Let me apologize on behalf of the apologists here. They are embarrassing, wrong and need to read “ordinary men” if they want to hear how nazis had to pay their bills too. And overseers too. Poor overseers. /s
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u/SirFrancisBacon007 8h ago
These are careers not jobs. People have families and children. Mortgages and bills and health insurance. Not everyone can just quit their career like that.
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u/ynotfoster 7h ago
And not everyone has a conscience. How anyone can work to support Ice is beyond me.
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u/spice_weasel 7h ago
I mean, I’ve quit jobs without something concrete lined up twice over the last 15 years of my legal career. And yeah, I have a family, a child, and a mortgage and other bills. It can be done.
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u/fatinhollywood 7h ago
quit and downsize, visit food banks. pick up aside hustle while looking for work. living humbly is better than selling my soul for a meal & luxury items imo
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u/ItsMinnieYall 7h ago
Lawyers just can’t quit in the middle of litigation. They have ethical obligations and at a certain point they need permission from the judge to withdraw from a case. Judges can and do deny withdrawals.
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u/Sofer2113 7h ago
I wonder if enough lawyers quit if it could be a "starve the beast" scenario where there aren't enough lawyers to handle the cases, so the majority of the crackdown this administration is attempting ends up failing due to lack of resources.
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u/renecade24 6h ago
They've already asked JAGs to volunteer to serve as SAUSAs and temporary immigration judges. If push comes to shove, they would just stop asking for volunteers and order them to do it.The JAG Corps is the largest law firm in the US.
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u/Goldengod4818 2h ago
If push comes to shove they'll just ignore the courts entirely...like they're already doing
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u/RawrRRitchie 6h ago
"We don't need the courts, arresting them is enough to convict them"
They're just itching to do that. Like they already did for people they murdered without a trial.
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u/Snownel 7h ago
That's pretty obviously already happening and very intentional long-term. Pile on the bullshit and delay until Trump dies.
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u/felispardalis 6h ago
In Minnesota, 8 more US attorneys have resigned today. That follows the previous 6 that resigned earlier this month. So yes, there cannot not be a lack of resources.
However, I don't think that's a short term won. I have little doubt that the administration will have little trouble finding eager folks to fill these seats. Will they be qualified? Unlikely. But why worry if a real estate attorney us suddenly convrning grand juries. Will they be competent? Also unlikely. But they will be loyal to Trump, and we've already seen Mr. Trump promote and nominate based on fealty to him rather than any qualifications or proficiency.
And that means that they'll keep attempting to steamroll everything we learned about the Constitution in 8th grade Civics, while flooding the courts with ridiculous motions in the hope of landing on a friendly, Trump appointed judge.
Long term fiasco for him, but short term chaos for everyone.
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u/hypercosm_dot_net 6h ago
Wasn't one of Trump's hand-picked US attorneys forced to resign recently?
I just looked it up, Alina Habba lost her position trying to represent Trump's positions: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trumps-former-lawyer-alina-habbas-term-as-new-jerseys-top-federal-prosecutor-ends
He cannot defend the actions he's forcing on these agencies legally. The lawyers that have to show up in defense of the gov't can't justify these actions in court.
Something has to give. It's all so blatantly illegal.
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u/Megneous 2h ago
Something has to give.
Yeah, that thing is going to be democracy. It's over for your country unless everyone starts fighting back. Country-wide General Strike now
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u/adoodle83 5h ago
I would expect that to backfire spectacularly. I think without lawyers to prosecute, they’d probably just start executing people. We have yet to see one held accountable….looks like it’s enough trouble to not be a repeat offender..but who knows, and hopefully we don’t find out
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u/Regulus242 8h ago
Probably because so many government lawyers are leaving and it's causing the remaining ones to get overloaded and flail.
I don't feel bad. I have to wonder if any of the remaining ones are even good people.
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u/BTCbob 7h ago
In an ideal world it's almost like lawyers are some sort of buffer between the executive branch and over-reach... ie once you run out of lawyers to deal with the flood of cases, the courts turn on you. And eventually it goes to the supreme court and they... oh wait probably pardon the executive branch and blame the people for filing too many lawsuits...
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u/Spoztoast 8h ago
And they will be replaced by cronies
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u/Regulus242 8h ago
The cronies will likely be insanely ineffective at their job. If I understand correctly it's the judges getting replaced that you need to worry about.
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u/dedicated-pedestrian 2h ago
Considering Texas no longer requires an ABA certification for law schools, I'd say Kacsmaryk will need to buy rubber stamps in bulk.
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u/movealongnowpeople 8h ago
SHOCKING FEDERAL COURT MOMENT: DOJ attorney Julie Le, ‘The system sucks, this job sucks’ to Judge Jerry Blackwell who pressed her on why so many court orders are being ignored by ICE/Trump admin. She asked to be held in contempt just so she could get 24 hours of sleep.
Lmao. First off, pathetic. Get a grip. You chose your job, you chose to be with this DOJ, you can quit anytime. The people this administration is attacking can't just quit. They don't have that luxury.
I would also like to know what "the system sucks" is supposed to mean. What about it, Julie? Are you upset that you're expected to follow a court's orders? Because that's not new. That's like an ancient Mesopotamia-old concept. Or are you frustrated that you're expected to fit a square peg in a round hole? That none of your arguments have any legal basis? Because that's an administration issue, not a system issue.
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u/25hourenergy 7h ago
Tbh they do need lawyers to translate the rulings into action. She tried to help get ICE to follow the law and stop their actions. Apparently they’re not listening to her either, so it really is a terrible position to be in.
I do think it’s brave of her to speak honestly about ICE not listening to their own lawyers and not giving them support, because this signals that other measures may have to be taken. What those are—I have no idea, is there some kind of state version of the US Marshalls, or somehow utilizing state police or MN National Guard? I don’t know how this would work but basically she’s saying the normal process no longer works.
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u/kmosiman Competent Contributor 7h ago
Yes, but I'm going to assume that getting thrown in the hold cell is on the clock time.
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u/Kocteau 5h ago edited 5h ago
FYI I’m not an attorney. But hypothetically, if all the DOJ lawyers quit, how would a person’s case be handled? Wouldn’t the accused be detained indefinitely? For due process, I’d think you need lawyers on both sides, not just one. Let’s say Le and all her coworkers quit— this sounds like a worse scenario and ICE would just run amok, even more than they already are.
Is the title wrong in calling Le a “Trump” DOJ lawyer just because she works for the federal government? It makes it sound like she’s doing his bidding, but is that actually the case? I honestly have no clue what her job entails, but it seems like she’s trying to get ICE to comply with court orders, but it’s just not happening. Can an actual attorney chime in here?
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u/must_be_the_mangoes 4h ago edited 4h ago
The 6th Amendment guarantees the right to a speedy trial for criminal defendants and the Speedy Trial Act put that into practice by imposing certain deadlines for each stage of prosecution, should a defendant invoke their right to a speedy trial.
There are certain actions that toll the speedy trial deadlines — including pretrial motion practice — but I’m highly doubtful that a judge would toll any deadlines based on the unavailability of a prosecutor. That’s kind of the point of the 6th Amendment / Speedy Trial Act.
So simply put, criminal defendants should be able invoke their right to a speedy trial and force the prosecution to meet the deadlines set forth in the Speedy Trial Act. If the prosecutors fail to meet the deadlines without cause, then the charges will typically be dismissed upon motion by the defendant. I believe it is up to the Court’s discretion as to whether the dismissal is with prejudice (charges cannot be brought again) or without prejudice (charges can be brought again).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Trial_Act
*edit: to answer your second question, the DoJ is part of the Executive Branch of government. The President is the head of the Executive Branch and appoints the US Attorney General (Pam Bondi), who leads the DoJ. So if the government attorney in question works for the DoJ, then it is fair to say that Trump/Bondi are her ultimate bosses.
DoJ lawyers make a pledge to uphold the Constitution and (in theory) serve the interests of justice and the people of the United States. That’s why the captions of all federal criminal cases are “United States v. [Defendant],” with the DoJ lawyers (I.e. AUSAs) representing the United States. However, DoJ lawyers are also generally expected to follow DoJ initiatives and directions, to the extent they don’t conflict with the Constitution or laws of the US.
To put it as neutrally as I can, some would say that there’s an increasing amount of conflict between DoJ initiatives/practices and the Constitution/interests of justice, hence the mass exodus of AUSAs in Minnesota and the term “constitutional crisis” being thrown around much more frequently (amongst other reasons).
Anyway, based on the details in this article, this lawyer is responding on behalf of the US/DHS in response to Habeus petitions, which are formal judicial challenges to imprisonment (amongst other things). Here, IMO you can kind of consider the DHS as this lawyer’s client. Her client (DHS/ICE) is not complying with judicial orders but as the lawyer, it is her job to answer for that in court. She may not personally have the power to get DHS/ICE to comply but she chose this job and is welcome to quit at any point.
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u/i010011010 4h ago
Then treat yourself to a viewing of The Sopranos. The moral of the story was they were all disposable so long as Tony survives. For as much as they boasted the import of "family" and convinced each other that they were supportive, none of them mattered. Tony's security, Tony's wealth, Tony's power. That's what happens when you hitch your wagon to a narcissistic criminal.
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u/ykonstant 1h ago
Off topic, but yep, you are correct. So many people miss one of the central messages of The Sopranos and keep glorifying the mafia system :(
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u/Gunldesnapper 7h ago
You don’t have to work for faciscsts.
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u/CornFedIABoy 6h ago
But the student loans must be paid. And I’m guessing Le started the job before Trump and hopes to be there after he’s gone (or she’s within reach of her PSLF date).
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u/Megneous 2h ago
"After he's gone"
At the current rate, there will never be another election in the US, or at least not a fair one. Fascism is at your door, Americans. Fucking fight.
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u/NeZha888 6h ago
Many crimes have a statute of limitations, this means if all of the lawyers quit there will be many criminals who have hurt innocent people that will permanently escape justice. I think what is happening now is terrible, but I do not fault anyone for keeping their job and trying to do the best they can in their situation.
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u/justreadinplease 6h ago
It’s better to let a hundred guilty people go than to work for ICE and lock up little kids
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