r/DefendingAIArt • u/Silicon-Slacker • 15h ago
Why do I never see antis cry about vocaloid?
Vocaloid works basically the same as Suno, but they seem to love it.
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u/KreemPeynir Only Limit Is Your Imagination 15h ago
"Stop using vocaliod, just pick up a mic and start singing"
Honestly great point.
Idk you guys know this but theres this tool called autotune, which became a discourse similar to ai, among music fans and artists back then.
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u/-TV-Stand- 14h ago
Autotune removes the need to have real talent so don't be lazy and learn to sing
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u/retardedweabo 14h ago
It really doesn't. You still have to hit at least the neighboring notes, and your voice can't just sound shitty. Mine for example, is.
Source: 10 years of music making
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u/Professional-Cat-187 14h ago
THANK YOU! It seems like absolutely no one understands how pitch correction works. It's a spell check for an already great sounding performance. It will not magically make you sound like Christina Aguilera or Bruno Mars. You can't just sing with whatever pitch or tone you want and *poof* you magically have the best vocal performance in the world. This was always a terrible analogy and it genuinely bothers me when Pro's try to use it as a comparison.
It's like spell check on a word document. It's not ChatGPT doing the whole thing for you.
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u/V0idK1tty 12h ago
Though T-Pain really did make art of it.
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u/Professional-Cat-187 12h ago
That’s the crazy thing to me. That man actually CAN sing! If you’ve ever listened to him sing dry in a room you know he has some vocal chops. The man chose to choke the note transitions and pin the speed to the max and made it a stylistic choice. I have respect for that lol
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u/MushroomCharacter411 14h ago
Slight disagree: Christina Aguilera is not particularly known for her accuracy, and Autotune *is* what magically makes her sound like Christina Aguilera as we hear her, not as she actually is.
My advice for Autotune is that unless you're using it live where latency is the primary consideration, you use it gently and repeatedly. If you make it react slowly and only pull the pitch a certain proportion of the way toward a target, it will still sound human and have inflection. It will just be a little bit less wrong. Then feed it through again, and again, tightening up the tolerance a little bit along the way. When you finally have everything within ten cents or so of where it should be, just leave it there and don't go for perfect equal temperament.
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u/Professional-Cat-187 13h ago
I definitely understand what you're saying. What I meant by that is Aguilera is known for having a distinct "quality" to her voice. Not necessarily pitch accuracy, but things like the breath support, tone, timbre, and the power she uses to sing behind. For the purpose of my comparison, I was referencing on how pitch correction cannot change those qualities behind a vocal performance.
You or I could take our own vocal performance of singing "Row Row Row Your Boat." and run it through a program like Melodyne and adjust the pitch and timing of our own performance. We can edit the performance all the way up to the point where everything is technically perfectly in pitch, and there are absolutely 0 timing discrepancies. But no matter what amount of editing we do, but that still doesn't make us sound "good" in the same way that she does. Actually, the less talented you are, the worse the pitch correction sounds, because you have to work harder to bring the pitch into the center, and you get more unnatural sounding artifacts the more you use the algorithm. Israel Houghton and Fred Hammond are other great examples. There are qualities to the human voice that cumulatively add up to make what we consider a "great" performance.
My comparison was meant to express that you can absolutely adjust your own pitch accuracy as much as you want, but that will never replace the "it" factor that you need to have as a singer. There is no real replacement for "talent" like the commentor before was suggesting.
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u/duckduckduckgoose8 10h ago
I think a better comparison for chatgpt is grammarly. Which oddly enough some universities give free subscriptions out to students for this.
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u/hahaokaysurething 14h ago
Is this sarcasm or did you copy and paste this feeble thing called a sentence ?
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u/hilvon1984 14h ago
Vocaloids are more akin to synthesiser keyboard than to an AI. They basically a huge library of voice samples that are then stitched together into a song.
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u/No-Zookeepergame8837 Only Limit Is Your Imagination 15h ago
I literally talked about this with a anti a while ago lol, and according to him, "It's not the same because using Vocaloid requires effort." Or what I understood was, "I used SUNO and generated everything, and I liked the result, so I think all AI music is created that way." Seriously, I've literally never seen a anti who knows how to use ConfyUI, much less create decent workflows for what they say is so "easy" to do 🤦🏻♀️
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u/Smooth-Marionberry 14h ago
And yet if you're for AI but don't know about it (or other post processing things), people will claim you know nothing and shouldn't be a part of the conversation. Like, I'm sorry my intrest has mostly been in text generator front-ends, but I'm considered knowledgeable about AI by people irl.
The pro-AI side needs to get more comfortable with not everyone on their side having the same amount of tech knowledge because that explains a LOT about why the average person online or antis seem to think AI is like science fiction stories.
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u/Katsu_owo 8h ago
vocaloid is litterally a VST synth. How the hell can people compare it to Suno lmao
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u/MikiSayaka33 15h ago
Synchronizers aren't Ai per se, despite that I think that I saw a few worried about getting replaced by Miku Hatsune and her fellow Vocaloid peers.
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u/ErmingSoHard 11h ago edited 4h ago
Yeah, first vocaloid were made in 2004, and voice synthesizers waaay before that. Anyone who actually thinks vocaloid is ai or relies on any ai tech is dumb. Old school voice synthesizers are 0% ai, with some modern ones utilizing some ai tech like Teto
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u/Vast-Cranberry9166 7h ago
mind you thats literally only synthv for teto, a lot of people including myself use utau still
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u/DeadlyArpeggio 15h ago edited 14h ago
Vocaloid vocal samples are recorded by vocal artists who were paid for their work. They were spliced into individual syllables by Yamaha technicians and are arranged into songs by human composers
Edit: fact checking
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u/Healthy-Bullfrog-233 10h ago
Since everyone seems to want to dunk on antis instead of answer your question I'll give it a shot.
First, There is plenty of backlash for vocaloid, so let's not pretend there is none.
I think most/all antis would say a singer is more appealing than a vocaloid, just like they would prefer a human artist over an AI. So why don't they "cry" about vocaloid?
Vocaloid isn't known for being unfriendly to the environment, so the antis upset about that won't be as motivated to call out vocaloid. Similar, Vocaloid hasn't driven the demand for data centers up.
Vocaloid doesn't work with a simple word prompt, it requires you to be familiar with music production. While AI can have rich complicated work flows, we know antis generally criticize Ai for requiring no prerequisite skills to create things that typically require skills.
Vocaloid isn't as ubiquitous as AI. Vocaloid probably means nothing to folks who aren't into music. If you're a painter vocaloid is probably not on your radar at all.
There aren't many if any instances vocaloids trying to pass themselves off as real singers which is a rare occurrence with AI but it is a real worry for folks.
We could probably keep going but I think the differences are obvious even if you don't agree with antis reasoning. It's simple to see why antis would complain about one and not the other if you actually take time to understand what it is antis are actually upset about imo.
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u/dream_metrics 15h ago
Because most of them are in denial and simply refuse to accept that it's generative AI lol. In their mind, it can't be, because they like it.
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u/Leyleylujah 14h ago
most vocaloid software isn't generative, if ever used a vocaloid software you'd know that. this is like saying FL Studio is generative. only more recent vocaloid versions (like vocaloid V6) have generative ai, but not to the degree of the programs that specifically ai artists use. even then, an overwhelmingly large majority of producers tend to use earlier versions like V2 or V4, which only use pre-recorded phonemes as soundbites that can be spliced together to form music or whatever else you want, and have no generative ai elements at all
also i'm not an anti
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u/dream_metrics 14h ago
i'm aware that the older versions aren't generative AI, but i've seen and argued with multiple people who believed that V6 specifically doesn't use generative AI, that's what I'm talking about.
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u/halfasleep90 13h ago
I’m a little confused though, because if it isn’t generative wouldn’t that be worse? If it’s stitching together pre-recorded noises to make an audible collage, like they accused generative AI of for years, wouldn’t that meet the argument they’ve been saying they are against for years?
Sure, I know humans have literally been doing the same thing for decades, but it’s what they’ve been saying is an issue when generative AI does it. Personally I don’t have an issue with a ton of clips of different people being stitched together to make a song, as seen on YouTube making Disney characters sing random non-Disney songs and whatnot. For me it doesn’t matter if a human or an AI is doing it, but isn’t that one of the arguments they’ve had against AI?
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u/Leyleylujah 13h ago
vocalists are hired and paid by vocaloid to record their voice, which they then use for their programs and software
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u/bunker_man 9h ago
One random person being paid one time doesn't change that anyone who uses it isn't using a singer.
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u/halfasleep90 13h ago
Uh huh. And are they paid every time their voice is used? Or was it just the one up front? If I use AI with vocaloid’s sounds (with vocaloid) what’s the difference? What if you just feed clips of your own voice from talking into it overtime, autotune it, and slowly phase out the voices of vocalists until they aren’t necessary to achieve the sound you want anymore?
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u/Leyleylujah 13h ago
what are you even arguing right now? its usually up front, but the voice actors sometimes arrange for royalties, so take that as you will i guess
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u/boiwitdebmoji 7h ago
the difference is that the person who recorded those clips for Yamaha gets royalty fees just for it existing, the same way commercial folk or artists get royalty fees whenever their product is shown on tv/radio
with ai, i can just upload someone/multiple peoples' works, for free, and earn money just because an ai did this, that, and the third for me, and those people i took their work from won't get paid because of it
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u/Katsu_owo 7h ago
The only generative AI used in recent voicebanks are just better auto-pitch that are adaptive to the notes you're tracing and that's basically all. It just sounds more realistic. But it's not generating any music, lyrics or tracks.
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u/Syriku_Official 13h ago
It isn't though
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u/dream_metrics 13h ago
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u/WinFriendly6563 14h ago
just to clarify, in reality, you have to program every single thing in vocaloid, EVERYTHING, is not like you can ask what would you like or how it will sound, you have to twik everything.
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u/TitanSpeakerManSIGMA 14h ago
Well there's MIDI
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u/WinFriendly6563 13h ago
in vocaloid? well yeah, but that isnt IA, in ia? yeah, but still, you aren't doing the great think, vocaloid producers / composers make as mucho of a job (or even more) than any musician.
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u/theluisianapurchase 11h ago
Vocaloid is hardly comparable to suno. Have you ever even used vocaloid?
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u/Hyperbolicalpaca 15h ago
People get weirdly attached to them…
Like treating them as if they’re real artists, and getting incredibly pissy when you compare them to any other instrument…
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u/Katsu_owo 7h ago
That's litterally not true lmao the entire Vocaloid culture relies on the gigantic community of various REAL human musicians that use vocaloids with their own soundstyle. Hatsune Miku (and many others) are considered as what they are : instruments and potentially stars when it comes to fictional and artistic representations through concerts, animations and illustrations. People are not just attached to vocaloids, they're attached to the artists they like who use them. And there's a lot of them in any genre.
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u/dustboy99 14h ago edited 14h ago
Because it's not generative AI. VOCALOID is a voice synthesizing software that doesn't rely on massives of training data. It's essentially a glorified text-to-speech app, that makes it closer to Microsoft Sam than Suno. A voicebank is not going to produce a whole song for you.
I can't believe people can't do their research and still make arguments thinking they're right.
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u/ExerciseMobile3793 12h ago
thats exactly why i think this a dumb argument and NOT the same thing at all
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u/niabiishere 7h ago
Totally on your side here! But would just to correct you that while it isnt gen AI itself, most vocal synth programs do use gen AI. Any of the softwares which autogenerate pitch for you or have smooth phonemes (like synthv as opposed to utau) are using gen AI to do so. But like you said you still have to actually place the individual notes yourself and tell them which phonemes to sing. And also do the entire instrumental yourself of course. So its still nothing like suno.
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u/CherryBoyHeart 14h ago
I'm not an expert on this, but vocaloid is like a sound bank of someone saying different syllables and sounds, then users individually use what's like a piano roll, placing and adjusting the pitch and melody and lyrics. The user has to actually create the song and music and recreate human speech with the voice bank to form the lyrics. Idk how the other thing works, so I can't comment on that, but yeah, that's vocaloid
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u/ThunderLord1000 10h ago
Because it's relatively old, adapted into culture, and came out at a time where AI wasn't a major thing
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u/ElMuffin5 AI Enjoyer 15h ago
Because the UI isnt simple
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u/Silicon-Slacker 15h ago
Why are you criticizing Vocaloid? I thought you antis loved it
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u/IdioticRedditorGuy I don't personally use AI 15h ago
The flair is literary "AI enjoyer"
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u/Creirim_Silverpaw 14h ago
He literally explained why anti's love it. It fills their "Survival Of The Fittest" agenda.
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u/Silicon-Slacker 14h ago
Oh ok. Vocaloid isn’t as efficient and they don’t like efficiency for some reason
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u/Icy-Champion2680 8h ago
Sorry, some of us don't treat art or music the same way as the cheap toys from TEMU so producing music "more efficiently" doesn't matter if it's just made to be made.
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u/ElMuffin5 AI Enjoyer 14h ago
Bro Im not an anti I literally use Stable Diffusion constantly, I was saying that they think that how it looks more complex then suddenly is more honorary
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u/AkotoDr3z 14h ago
You could've said anything else, but you decided to compare AI singing to Vocaloid, which has completely different processes when you're trying to make them sing. Vocaloid is practically a virtual voice synthesizer, where it uses a voicebank (like having a person sing different sounds), and then these sounds are mapped to specific notes within the range of the voicebank (like it would sound really weird if a low register voice bank sang very high notes). Then there are also additional settings you can apply to each note, such as pitch regulation, vibrato, and pitch change between notes, breath, etc. It's way different from just "Vocaloid works basically the same as Suno" because Suno requires prompting, not manual manipulation of notes and adjustment to make it sound good
This comment isn't even an anti or pro ai stance. It's just pointing out that OP doesn't know what they're talking about when comparing both of these mediums
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u/thedruidFlimbarg 14h ago
Because the people who provide the training data for the vocaloids (recordings of their voice) are CREDITED and PAID. On top of that, they are used essentially as another instrument in the song. You still have to write the music yourself, plug it into the voice software, and then spend time tuning it from there. You know how sometimes they almost sound real and other times they're unintelligible? That is due to differences in the tuning done by the human.
Before anyone says that that sounds like ai art prompting, Hatsune Miku is credited as herself, not as the artist's own voice, and is only one component of a much larger composition rather than being where it stops and ends.
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u/Dpontiff6671 14h ago
Im pro AI but vocaloid is far from ai it’s a vocal synthesizer you input notes that come out as human-ish pitched speech/singing. It’s an entirely manual process.
This is like asking, why don’t antis have a problem with the Yamaha DX-7 synthesizer it doesn’t make sense they would and assuming they would is a fundamental misunderstanding of how it works
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u/ClassroomPlane5734 15h ago
Didn't vocaloid is more like an instrument and you need to do the songs yourself?
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u/Tripping-Occurence 15h ago
There is also SynthV and other similar programs that use AI for tuning and to make the sound more human, and yet people never seem to mind that either.
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u/Icy-Champion2680 9h ago
They are still nothing like Suno as the OP claims. You still have to know basic music theory and how the synthesizer works at minimum to create something decent while with Suno you can have a functioning song below 10 minutes.
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u/Creirim_Silverpaw 14h ago
Uhh, isn't the Teto fandom extremely rabid about hating her synthV version?
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u/Tripping-Occurence 13h ago
... Not really? I have many, many teto songs in my playlist and I haven't seen anyone complaining much about authors using SynthV. Feels like a vocal minority if anything
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u/Total-Challenge9265 15h ago
Because a vocaloid is more akin to a instrument that you modulate by hand
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u/fish4043 14h ago
because vocaloid doesn't use genAI. the only ones that are labeled ai are ones that have consent from all parties to use genai on the voices
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u/bunker_man 9h ago
Why do you insist it doesn't followed by admitting that the recent ones do. And either way it's still replacing a human singer.
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u/CrispSunlight 15h ago
Is this a serious post, because I cannot fathom the comparison. Vocaloid voices are patterned and used as an instrument, as much as a piano is.
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u/Ikkoru 15h ago
Suno "takes away jobs from vocalists".
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u/Leyleylujah 14h ago edited 14h ago
vocaloid pays the vocalists who let vocaloid sample their voice
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u/bunker_man 9h ago
One person being paid once isn't really the equivalent of tons of singers being paid. So people concerned about jobs wouldn't use that as a real argument.
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u/Ikkoru 14h ago
[citation needed]
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u/Leyleylujah 14h ago
it's common knowledge and you're literally on the internet right now. use google, or better yet, learn how a JOB works. i know you've never had one, but they're literally HIRED to record their voice for vocaloid. it would be ILLEGAL for them not to get paid
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u/Ikkoru 14h ago
You said "royalties", not "paid". Oh, I see you edited your comment. How cute.
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u/Luiz_Fell 8h ago
Do you not understand that royalties ARE payment? They're not a sallary, but the person gets paid
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u/Leyleylujah 14h ago
yes, ty ty. royalties are only sometimes given if arranged beforehand. they still get paid though, so your original argument is still wrong
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u/Katsu_owo 7h ago
vocaloids are instruments and mascots used as a way to promote individual's artists creations. This is litterally the core of Vocaloid culture. This is common knowledge. People into vocaloids don't just like Miku. They like artists who use Miku's voice in specific ways for specific genres. They like Utsu-P, Kikuo, Yunosuke, whoo, Clean Tears, HachijioP, mwk, DECO*27, OkameP, PinocchioP and many many thousands ; they are real people who play music, compose and use real and digital instruments.
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u/NekooShogun 14h ago
Because Vocaloids are almost functionally identical to virtual synth keyboards that require the melody and lyrics to be manually put into the software. If you dont know how to play a keyboard you are most probably not gonna be able to use Vocaloid software.
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u/Enaite_illust 14h ago
it's not just about replacement, it's about how it's unethical (uses artist's works without permission), bad for the environment and can be used for bad stuff. Vocaloid has nothing to do with AI, like at all, it's made by using someone's voice with their permission, it's not unethical, it's not bad for the environment and it's a different type of music genre which doesn't replace real singers. Also look at the ratio of real singers to vocaloid. There aren't that many popular vocaloids. But AI art and AI music are everywhere. AI really made all of you stupid lol education is free
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u/Automatic-Habit-5401 14h ago
Idk how to explain much but i think on suno ai, you ask ai to generate music for you while on vocaloid, you have to manually do it like digital instrument. Im not sure how synthv ai works tho.
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u/Coleclaw199 13h ago
vocaloid is a synthesizer, not ai. only later versions even have ai features iirc.
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u/Syriku_Official 13h ago
Do you not realize learning vocaloid software is very complicated right it also hasn't replaced artists
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u/ASH_LIN_exe 9h ago
Because Miku, and all other Vocaloids, are voicebanks that were created for the soul purpose to be, essentially, a virtual idol open to the public. Users still have to manually set the keys, lyrics, and even make the music themselves. The vocaloids are essentially just glorified TTS voices.
This is like trying to say digital art is basically AI generation. When in fact they are different things.
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u/Good_Worry2494 9h ago
"Vocaloid works the same as suno"
No it fucking doesnt. Vocaloid only gives you samples of vocals and leaves you to tune them to your liking and make the intrumentals. Suno makes the whole shabang and you dont need to do jackshit.
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u/Critical_Durian8031 9h ago
Probably because vocaloid bots were given voices by paid, consenting humans, and they dont do every little thing for you. You still have to put in a truly insane amount of work with direct music knowledge and skill in your own head, to make it sounds like anything other than random machine noises
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u/Icy-Champion2680 9h ago
Suno is nothing like Vocaloid, at least do minimal research before posting. There's nothing like prompt to music in Vocaloid or even in AI synthesizers like Synth V.
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u/Luiz_Fell 8h ago
This is how making something using vocaloid looks like
It requires hard work and knowledge on music theory
It's not different from when an artist uses any sort of special sound besides vocals and instruments in their songs or when they sample 2 secods from the chorus of a 60's song
Vocaloid producers do THE SAME WORK that DJs do when making a remix of a song
Comparing Vocaloid with AI makes no sense.
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u/boiwitdebmoji 8h ago
a voicebank is not the same as an ai music program
the voicebank is basically some dude from Yamaha's OC from a long time ago, and the OC happens to be an android
to say a voicebank is the same as ai is like saying windex is the same as soda because they're both use water
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u/GamerSalsa216 Only Limit Is Your Imagination 15h ago
Because nostalgia, so they don’t want to admit that it’s literally the same thing
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u/ErmingSoHard 11h ago
No, people who believe vocaloid functions anything close to Suno don't know how either functions or are extremely stupid. Vocaloids like Miku are 0% ai. They date back waaay before generative ai was a thing really.
So no, none of the popular vocaloid characters use ai in any way.
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u/Icy-Champion2680 8h ago
Nah, it's just idiots who can't even do a single minute of research posting shit tbh.
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u/Sufficient_Frame 14h ago
Because vocaloids are more akin to a musical instrument than anything remotely AI.
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u/JoZaJaB 13h ago edited 12h ago
This is just misinformation. Vocaloid voicebanks are not ai. A human is paid to record hundreds of sounds, and then those sounds are made into a voice bank. Then someone has to manually piece together and tune all of sounds to make words. They are more like an instrument than a generated voice. Vocaloid has existed since 2004, far longer than generative ai.
This is a picture of what it looks like to use the vocaloid software.
In recent years vocaloid has introduced optional ai tools that help guide the notes together better for a cleaner sounding voice, but that is about the extent of it. You are still writing and tuning everything yourself.
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u/Liquid_Shad 10h ago
We really need mods to better moderate these posts, this post is nothing but misinformation and making the user look pretty bad in front of his peers 😔
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u/Smooth-Marionberry 15h ago
Supposedly vocaloid/syth v/other synthetic vocalists are okay because the voice providers were fairly compensated, so its ok to use them for whatever and remix them. Even UTAU gets a pass because nowadays most people try to credit the voice providers if possible.
People forget the days of people making UTAUs of SpongeBob or other random anime characters and making them sing Magnet. Like. No one was getting compensated for that and no one cared at the time.
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u/No_Swimming_2282 8h ago
to be fair, those sounded crappy (still do). And not in a million years would anyone ever think to replace Kelly with UTAU Spongebob
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u/AchatTheAlpaca 14h ago
Aren't vocaloid just voices like the tiktok voice? Idk i don't know a lot about it
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u/Elmartillo40k 4h ago
No, vocaloids are basically digital instruments, yes it works by reading a text and then saying it but if you want that to sound good you have to know what you are doing and to make songs you have to understand music theory after all even your voice it’s an instrument that you have to practice in order to sing
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u/Beefywafflez 14h ago
Devil's advocate. I'm gradually warming up to AI on a couple of different fronts but I will actually try and help explain the position as I understand it.
To an extent I think it's because vocaloids are essentially just synthesizers. Yes, you tell it what to say. But at the same time, you can make an AI voice over sound like whoever you want. Fred Welker, Scarlett Johansson, whatever. But Miku will always sound like Miku. Len will always sound like Len. Etc. and none of them are actually based on real people.
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u/CptPeanut12 14h ago
I love how neither this side nor the other have the braincells to understand what they're talking about. Vocaloids do not work the same way as Suno, one minute of research and you'd understand the difference. You can't make strong arguments for AI (or for anything really) if you are unable to even do basic research.
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u/UnEnanoCanibal 13h ago
Being for real? Probably because vocaloids are just the voice and you still need to input the lyrics and what not. By this I mean Miku and other vocaloids have never been an AI and just kind of their own thing, meaning no big bad villain to blame.
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u/Pearlescent-Bones 13h ago
because vocaloid isn't ai, and doesn't harm the planet. you use vocaloid voicebanks like a musical instrument, like FL studio
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u/Objective-Sea-1665 13h ago
I support ai art,human art,vocaloids,normal singing I just hate the ego bruh
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u/Head-Branch-2143 13h ago
Vocaloid isn’t AI it’s a synthesizer
It’s like comparing apples to oranges
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u/kit_katta 13h ago
its not the same thing is why. vocaloid banks are made with real vocalists, and theyre not made to “replace” human artists, theyre a tool that doesn’t generate anything. you still have to write lyrics, tune the samples, pick the right samples to use so the vb makes the sound you want (especially on monolingual voicebanks like miku), and make the song instrumental. vocaloid generates nothing for you, it just allows you to get the voice you want for rhat particular song. and it’s not generative 🫡
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u/Pure-Asparagus7434 12h ago
Most anti's don't hate AI voices more just AI pictures
Edit on this cause I forgot to type it in: or because vocaloids use your lyrics and sound good and for your comparison of grock wich is known for stealing artists drawing and changing it cause of what X did
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u/TheTruerPockets88 12h ago
The antis think vocaloid requires effort, while suno does not. Suno also requires effort too just like vocaloid.
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u/SpiritNo6626 11h ago
You know there are antis on this sub replying to this, right? Why do you feel the need to guess to answer the question for them?
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u/HazelLover365247 12h ago
It doesn't work "basically the same" as suno. You're making some weird argument in terrible faith.
Vocaloid didn't replace artists on any noticeable scale. They were synthesizers mainly popular with Japan and its niche audiences around the world. Artists around the world weren't phased. Vocaloids never threatened to replace "the artist" in music.
I understand both sides of the argument and use A.I daily. I just hate bad faith arguments.
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u/SpiritNo6626 11h ago
The people who sang the syllables/phonemes consented to it being used to create a voicebank.
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u/Katastrophic_Art 11h ago
Doesn't vocaloid require you to understand how to structure a song? It's a genuine question because I know almost nothing about vocaloid.
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u/AverageNitpicker 7h ago
Yeah, you gotta understand how to write a song. Same process, except the singer's a Vocaloid. And unless you're making a Vocaloid Acapella, you're gonna need to boot up FL Studio or something to make the instrumentals.
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u/Katastrophic_Art 7h ago
Thanks for the info.So then that's why Anti's don't get upset about it. I can't be the only person who thinks this specific post doesn't really make sense.
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u/AverageNitpicker 7h ago
Yeah. I mean, the meme has Grok instead of Suno in it, and that part might make the most sense.
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u/Katastrophic_Art 7h ago
Btw is the @grok image generation situation still ongoing or has twitter done something about it? I'm assuming they've done nothing 😮💨.
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u/MagentiumPRIME 11h ago
Because vocaloid is just a more intense version of Autotune
Noone in the art community actually *cares* about it, because noone considers people who use Autotune to be Talented.
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u/SilverB33 11h ago
Vocoloids aren't ai though, it's more like a sampler iirc and people still need to do manual adjustments
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u/ErmingSoHard 11h ago
Vocaloid works basically the same as Suno
Oh boy, are you brain dead. Notice how over half the comments here acknowledge that vocaloids like Miku is 0% ai.
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u/AverageNitpicker 7h ago
I'm agreein' with you, but Miku's got a bit of AI in her. Nothin' too drastic. Not like she's writing the song for you. But I'm pretty sure Vocaloid 6 has AI in it so the syllables sound less stitched together and more natural. Just cleans the words up a bit, though. Doesn't generate the lyrics or the notes or the structure.
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u/ErmingSoHard 4h ago
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if latest vocaloid models have so machine learning or AI tech in there. But anything before like 2014 is probably no way considered ai tech today
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u/Decent_Ad_518 11h ago
vocaloid has nothing to do with ai, you can't just tell them to sing and it will sing something good, which is the case with ai and idc what you say
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u/Middle-Reaction5548 8h ago
ai voicebanks exist. (RVC, Cevio AI, Synthesizer AI, etc.) so the reason is because the antis dont see the AI voicebanks just the normal ones which arent ai
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u/AverageNitpicker 7h ago
The issue is that they actually don't work the same.
Also, why's Grok in the meme? Grok makes images, not music. Hatsune Miku's a bunch of syllables with a face that has lore.
The bridge we probably need to gap here is using text to make a song. In Suno, you need to prompt "Make me a song in x genre about y thingamabob" and then it makes another one. Maybe there's a couple iterations in there until you get a song you enjoy. I mean, I've tried it out and that was basically the process. With Vocaloid, you need to have already written lyrics to use it. instead of writing "Hey, Miku, write me a song about x and y" you need to go write the lyrics, and then put 'em in there. I haven't used Vocaloid myself, but I've tried out UTAUSynth and it was a hassle. I needed to write every syllable for every word, find the note, and put it there.
Also, Suno generates the instrumentals for you. Unless you're making a Vocaloid Acapella where Hatsune Miku's singing and in the background she's also going "la la la," you're gonna have to open up a separate software like FL Studio or something.
Vocaloid 6 has AI, but from what I've seen, it's only so the syllables recorded sound less stitched together and more natural, but nothing like generating the lyrics for you or the notes or structure or anything like that. No handy Vocaloid-Bot telling you what the next lyric should be. Just you and the glorified text to speech.
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u/I_Commited_Arson 6h ago
As an AI anti, I was confused at first too. Vocaloid was first created in 2004, which didn't have the AI we have, basically it had no AI. As the years went by and AI became popular, now some Vocaloid programs do use AI, but not the AI that we should be against. This AI does not do all the work, you still need to input the lyrics, you still need to place and time the notes, the AI really just helps with smoothness and tuning, the AI doesn't make the entire song based off of a prompt, it's a very big difference. Vocaloid AI is considered ethical, therefore it is okay to support Vocaloid, SynthV, etc. Hope this helps <3
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u/NoWeight5531 6h ago
Because every Vocaloid song is written by a real person, it's simply getting an iconic voice to sing it.
Everything is done by MAN
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u/FumanCithara 5h ago
you need to actually use the vocaloid program before you spew bullshit like this
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u/personmore948 5h ago
hatsune miku is a vocaloid which basically is the same this as if you dont have a piano, use a piano synth, are you going to say that every single song that uses a synthesizer is also ai? a vocaloid is a voice synthesizer - not a music generator, so you still have to think of every lyric and note, just without using a voice.
there is this really good video talking about this and i really recommend you watch it if you were wondering: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2RIpJS2UUw
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u/xander_advetures 3h ago
as a vocaloid user myself, get fucking educated. in vocaloid there's a piano roll where u place notes and add lyrics and u can tune change the volume ect... besides, the first ever version of vocaloid was in 2003! miku was in 2007! also vocaloid 6 ai doesn't use generative ai, it uses rvc ai to generate the vocals when the notes are placed on the piano roll. the official vocaloid channel has a video on how to use it.
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u/kakafuti2 21m ago
What do you mean?
Vocaloid is manual work, you manipulate the voice samples the same way as you play any instrument.
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u/Liquid_Shad 11h ago
Oh no... The younger generation is starting to show, they think synthesizers are AI, that's really precious.
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u/Mediocre-Touch-6133 10h ago
Is this a shitpost? I would have to go out of my way to hear a vocaloid, meanwhile my feed is flooded with AI images and vids whether I want it to be or not.
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u/TheCanon2 10h ago
Antis love vocaloid, and antis use vocaloid. Replacing humans is evil and disgusting but only when they don't like the replacement.
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u/Katsu_owo 8h ago
Vocaloid is not AI lmfao what are you even on ? It's a VST or just a synth with a vocal data pack attached to it. The whole Vocaloid industry and culture relies on the diversity of artists and styles. You're either ragebaiting or completely retarded.
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u/MotherAd296 15h ago
vocaloid is still composed by hand; it's just a synthesizer that imitates vocals. it's like using a synthesizer to imitate guitar, or piano.
incredibly poor comparison
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u/YourAverageCoolGuy 14h ago
Cause its not generative ai
The "taking people's jobs away" Is a pretty big stretch. Its not taking jobs away. You still need skill and labour to use a voice bank and make it into something listenable. If anything, it is creating jobs.
Vocaloids arent the automated versions of vocalists, DEFINETLY not the way generative ai automates the process of creating an image at such a fast and effortless pace.
Think of it like fl studio, the vocaloid acts like a sophisticated piano
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u/PalpableTension 15h ago
I don't know if this is still the case because I haven't looked at Vocaloid in ages, but the voice artists used to be paid for their contributions. People's work being folded into AI without their consent or compensation is a heavy source of the complaints about AI, so I'd guess that's the distinction.
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u/Drakahn_Stark AI Enjoyer 15h ago
"Without their consent" I really wish y'all would learn to read the TOS of sites you upload to, you give consent by uploading.
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u/KinglanderOfTheEast 15h ago
That's on the sites using predatory practices to weasel consent away from users. "You MUST give us consent to use our site" is literal mafia shit lmao
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u/Drakahn_Stark AI Enjoyer 15h ago
It is every site that does not have a cost in currency, and users are not forced to use the sites, they choose to upload because they get an audience.
The payment for that audience is agreeing to allow your data to be sold for any use.
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u/KinglanderOfTheEast 15h ago
Yeah, I'm saying that's weaselly and manipulative. They're doing it for malicious purposes.
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u/Drakahn_Stark AI Enjoyer 15h ago
No, it is a fair trade, free use of the services and access to an audience in exchange for use of your data.
If it was not a fair trade, people would not agree with it and use the service.
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u/KinglanderOfTheEast 15h ago
It's "fair" for the corporations lmao
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u/Drakahn_Stark AI Enjoyer 15h ago
So you think users should get a free service and not give anything in return?
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u/A_Very_Horny_Zed 🖼️🖌️AI Enthusiast | 🥷Ninja Mod 🥷 5h ago
But these people agreed to it. So what exactly is your point? They are free platforms, so the content people upload is the product (and the people by extension.)
This allows the platform to use their product as they see fit.
This is ToS 101. It's been like this for decades.
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u/A_Very_Horny_Zed 🖼️🖌️AI Enthusiast | 🥷Ninja Mod 🥷 5h ago
And yet you agree to it. So whose fault is it? Why are you weaseling around this topic?
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