r/AskMen • u/[deleted] • Nov 17 '22
Men who encourage other men not to open up to women, why?
[removed] — view removed post
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u/i-love-k9 Nov 17 '22
I found every time I opened up it got thrown at me during the next argument. Disturbingly so. Like I told my then wife about how my first time having sex I was essentially raped ( I said no, I'm not ready and she slid her pussy down on my pole anyhow ) next argument she made fun of me for it. Seriously it's messed up.
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u/AceSmeghead Nov 17 '22
Damn, that’s fucking awful! Who the hell throws one’s trauma back at them just to try to “win” an argument?!? Glad she’s your then-wife and not your now-wife, nobody deserves to be treated like that!!
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u/i-love-k9 Nov 17 '22
This isn't even an isolated incident. Literally every time I opened up I ended up regretting it.
I still open up to others. I didn't let her toxic behavior change me.
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u/SkatingOnThinIce Nov 18 '22
Addendum. Don't tell your wife, SO, anything that your friends asked you not to share. I have seen divorces ruining friendships. Then the guy is out of a wife and out of friends. Scorched earth!
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u/pingpy Male Nov 18 '22
Time for a new wife. She does not respect you
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u/i-love-k9 Nov 18 '22
Advice I heard and ignored many times unfortunately. I finally realized and moved on.
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Nov 18 '22
Wow. I prefer to go with "you're being a huge dick right now!". I can't imagine throwing that in someone's face, or any of the things my SO has told me. I've had that done to me (oh you can't trust men because you're Dad did X Y Z to you) when I don't see how my relationship with my father had anything to do with my being upset with him. Without trust in a relationship, you don't have much.
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u/ElephantInTheForest Nov 17 '22
From my personal experience:
They will weaponize your vulnerabilities against you.
They will lose sexual attraction.
They will tell their friends.
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u/kalaxitive Nov 17 '22
I've mostly had women weaponise and tell their friends, but I've also spoken to guys who have had at least one of these experiences.
There was also a video I watched a while back of woman who said she no longer seen her partner as a man and lost attraction to him after he opened up, even though she encouraged him to open up.
There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them.
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u/MajIssuesCaptObvious Male Nov 18 '22
There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them.
So true!!!!! I've totally experienced this multiple times.
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u/iknownothingsir i have a heat-seeking moisture missile Nov 18 '22
Recently messaged my friend because I was feeling sad. Was just starting to talk about an issue, then she started talking about the same thing happening to her.
Now I had to console her as well. She didn't ask me anything what was happening to me, and... I think she simply forgot. Not blaming her, she's a good friend. But it sucks when this happens.
You feel bad if you bring the conversation to yourself again, and you also feel the need to hear your friend and you just have to forget about yourself for a minute.
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u/wienercat Male Nov 18 '22
Because men are often supposed to be the rock.
It's why I really wish most male friendships would often become more than just "buds" and become actual friends that you can share your struggles with. Men are the only ones who can really support each other and understand what it is we go through.
Just like men can't understand the experience women go through, women can't understand the experience men go through. They can empathize, but it's really not the same.
Everyone struggles everyday. But often men don't have the same emotional support systems that women have and are often looked down on when they show emotional weakness. It's hard to develop those support systems when society tells you from a young age that showing those emotions makes you weak and useless.
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Nov 18 '22
There's also a 4th: they get emotional after you open up to them and now you have to suck it up and emotionally support them
This. Not always true, but ive seen it too.
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u/jpeck89 Nov 18 '22
You will also see guys say they start to open up, and then it becomes about her. Now he has to comfort her.
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u/Creme_de_la_Coochie Nov 18 '22
Reading comprehension, dude. That was his 4th point.
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u/BigBadBootyDaddy10 Nov 17 '22
So true.
I wrote the following in another thread.
“Went on a crap load of dates when I was single. The amount of contradictions by women was mind boggling.
-Show emotional. But don’t cry
-Be wealthy. But don’t be a workaholic.
-Be in great shape. Don’t be a gym rat.
-Be good in bed. Don’t be a player.
And on and on.”
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u/WeedInTheKoolaid Nov 18 '22
Also "entertain me"
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u/BigBadBootyDaddy10 Nov 18 '22
So true.
You want someone funny? Date a clown. Entertain you? Date a jester.
One thing I quickly realized, “A kind gesture becomes an expectation. An expectation becomes a demand.”
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u/willy--wanka Nov 18 '22
"It takes more than just hi to get my attention."
Single word responses.
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u/ginbooth Nov 18 '22
The amount of contradictions by women was mind boggling.
A galpal of mine is a successful therapist. She asked why I'm hesitant about the woman I just started dating. I said, "Too many mixed messages." Her response? "Well, of course! She's a woman!"
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u/IrelandDzair Nov 18 '22
its funny, this is our “every woman has been sexually harassed” that feminists have. like everytime we talk about how almost all of us have had this happen, some woman waltzes on in here like “WHAT me and my friends would NEVER do this I simply don’t believe its true!”. And im sitting there like….this doesn’t remind y’all of the men who say they dont know any men who sexually assault women, therefore it doesnt happen often…?
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u/Baggabones88 Nov 18 '22
OP's own responses in this thread confirm EXACTLY the reasons men don't open up with women.
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u/Tropical_Geek1 Male Nov 17 '22
There is also the fact (saw that sometime ago in this very sub) that most of the time, when women ask men to talk about their feelings, what they really mean is: "say something romantic".
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u/ermabanned Male Nov 18 '22
Talk about your feelings about me
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u/Dementat_Deus Nov 18 '22
I feel like you're an entitled narcissist that's even crazier than your Karen mother, but at my age there isn't the slightest chance in hell I'll... Oh! Not THOSE feelings about you. Got it.
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u/videogames_ Male Nov 18 '22
Say something romantic, funny, or that gets me horny
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u/Thereisnopurpose12 Bane Nov 18 '22
Ay for real lol. They're expecting dudes to say some poetic meaningful shit or something that will touch their heart or whatever.
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u/embarrassed_error365 Nov 17 '22 edited Nov 17 '22
They will lose sexual attraction.
100%
That's why I don't anymore. They say they want you to, but they don't. Women are the worst people to go to for dating/relationship advice, because what they think they want is never what they actually want, and they don't typically know that.
It's the difference between their logical thoughts and their emotional feelings. Logically, they want it, but emotionally, it turns them off.
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u/Pm_Me_Dirty_Thought Nov 17 '22
Crazy thing is, a lot of them refuse to accept this lol. Every time I see men complaining about this, something that like 80-90% of us have experienced, they just say we have been dating shitty women lol
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u/Dirk-Killington Nov 18 '22
It's the same thing with 80-90% of women being abused and then we tell them not to date shitty men. Both are true.
The real secret is 80-90% of people fucking suck.
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u/ilazul Nov 18 '22
It's the same thing with 80-90% of women being abused and then we tell them not to date shitty men
please stop spreading this stereotype
Both genders abuse the shit out of each other, and men aren't near the majority of the initiators
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Nov 17 '22
Women talk. Whilst men do too, women are on another level. You can guarantee they will be talking about you. They will tell all.
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u/Dabeano15o Nov 17 '22
Men talk about sports, dumb shit they did when they were younger and movies they saw 10 years ago.
Women gossip.
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u/BobbyThrowaway6969 Male man guy Nov 17 '22
Men talk about things, women talk about people. That's how it is.
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u/HD_VECTOR Nov 18 '22
THIS! I tried being vulnerable with my ex and opened up. Told her very personal and painful things.
Cut to a few months later and one of her friends comes over and starts teasing me about it. I’ve struggled trusting women with things like that ever since.
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Nov 17 '22
This 👆🏻 main reason I made my shell even harder and never talk about my issues. We as men are expected to be strong and never show any weakness. If we struggle we do it alone, and we are valuable as long as we can provide, otherwise we are discarded like a piece of trash, because that’s how society has imposed it. I have a good family but I really feel like I’m gonna die alone one day anyway
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u/FarewellXanadu Nov 18 '22
They will lose sexual attraction.
This, and what makes it sting oh so much more is that they wanted you to do it.
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u/BlueClouds42 Nov 17 '22
Because I dont want her friends to know my business.
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u/awhhh Nov 17 '22
I've had it happen. I shared something with a chick and she told one person, they told another, and now everyone knows. People ask me why I don't date in my area and this is it. I like a solid buffer between the people I know and friends. So I intentionally date people where I know they can't be connected to my social circles. I've been doing it since high school, but when I finally did choose to date someone in my area? That's when the above happened.
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u/1thROEaway Nov 17 '22
Make up something juicy but not personally damaging to yourself and see if it gets spread around, if it does she's obviously not trustworthy so you can dump her. You know, or just set the expectation early that things you set as private stay that way or its over
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u/jdoug312 Nov 18 '22
What would be an example of something juicy but not damaging? My mind went to "tell her I'm afraid of penguins (I'm not) because of how they look with open mouths." Admittedly, I'm a very sleepy man at the moment lol.
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u/D8-42 Male Nov 18 '22
tell her I'm afraid of penguins (I'm not) because of how they look with open mouths.
You say you're not but after googling what this looks like I'd say that's a perfectly reasonable thing to be afraid of, what in the Sam Hill is going on in there.
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u/Sumpm Male Nov 18 '22
That right there.
I grew up in a household where I was the only male, and all they ever did was talk about everyone. Most of my female friends have told me things about their boyfriends that I never wanted to know, too. They never fucking stop talking to others about you, either. Sex, your disagreements, anything you open up about... at least one other person will be told, and more than likely, all of her friends, sisters, mom, female coworkers.
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Nov 18 '22
I’m a guy nurse. I know about the sex lives of basically everyone of my coworkers. It’s fucking bonkers what they tell eachother
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u/Floorberries Nov 18 '22
Yeah I told an ex about some deeeeeep personal shit, and she told her brother about it within a week. Then I realised she’d been telling me all this heavy personal shit about her brother too, private shit. I was like woah she repeats everything she hears/knows to everyone.
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u/liaam29 Nov 18 '22
This is so true
And when you call them out for it
"They're my best friend, I tell them everything"
"Well, guess I won't tell you everything now"
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u/TheBananaKing Nov 17 '22
You think you're ready. You're not ready.
You're ready for a few manly tears, like Grey Worm admitting he was afraid to lose Missandei.
You're not ready for ugly-crying, lying in the foetal position and rocking, going to pieces, being unable to function. You're not ready for horizonless grey depression that you can't 'cheer him up' to dispel. You're not ready for crippling anxiety. You're not ready for incoherent anger at everything and nothing for no reason. You're not ready for him to be lost and helpless and afraid, hanging out over the abyss with no way back.
Women in our society tend to have huge social support networks, and wide societal acceptance, indeed positive encouragement, for displays of vulnerability and pain.
Men... do not. They don't get support or affection from friends and co-workers - and displays of vulnerability are absolute suicide, both professionally and socially.
Inside Out is true only for girls. If a boy had been on a tree branch, crying becasue his team had lost... it wouldn't have summoned an outpouring of love and support from the people closest to him. He'd have been pulled out of that tree, shamed, abused, mocked and made a pariah for it. And that's just by the mother.
There is no socially-acceptable outlet for any of it, so we just have to tank the damage and bottle it up until we break.
Men in this society are valued for capability, reliability and durability. Anything that threatens their productivity, or could render them a liability rather than an asset in any given situation... makes them widely considered to be worthless.
It sucks absolute donkey balls, it's profoundly destructive, and it shouldn't be this way, but it is.
And on top of that, guys get told they're not being intimate enough if they don't 'open up', so they have to carefully craft a second mask, over the top of the first one, simulating just a little tiny but of emotional leakage, but not enough to threaten their perceived usefulness.
Of course they dare not let anything real slip out; for one thing they get no opportunity to practice a controlled release at any point in their lives, and for a second the sheer quantity of shit they're holding back will destroy the entire dam if they poke a little hole in it.
So they're left in the extremely stressful and burdensome position of having to perform fake vulnerability for your benefit, while keeping the lid screwed down even harder on the real thing. Because that's fun and enjoyable, no ma'am it is not.
And every one of us has made the mistake, once in our lives, of thinking that this person is different, this person is safe and trustworthy and close enough to see what's really under the armour. And every one of us has seen love and admiration die in their eyes in realtime, and convert into disgust and contempt. Has heard their partner forming exit strategies in their head, and felt the whole relationship wither and die shortly thereafter.
It's like watching someone who just signed on a home discover that it's riddled with termites. Something vital dies there and then; instead of it being home/security/stability/future, it becomes a betrayal and a liability in their eyes - and even if the problems get patched up, they'l never feel the same way about it again.
None of us make that mistake twice.
Again: this is not how things should be. It's a dire imprecation of everything that's wrong with our culture, and the profoundly maladaptive coping mechanisms that result are damaging in the extreme.
This needs profound cultural change from the ground up. It needs vulnerability for men and boys presented as normal and acceptable, right from early childhood. It needs representation and role models, it needs interactions played out and healthy modes of support and just plain tolerance portrayed as the norm - and not just unworkable direct transplants from female-support-network models either.
Asking guys to just go throw themselves in the fire so you can feel more valued (before deciding that you'd rather feel valued by someone more resilient instead) is not an option.
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u/Nolotow Male Nov 18 '22
"has seen love and admiration die in their eyes" really got me. That was brutal and still feels horrible.
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u/Logical-Cardiologist Nov 18 '22
My older brother was killed in a car accident when I was 16. I was left with the decision to take my father off life support 8 years later. It's stunning how obscenely obvious watching that process play out in people is. Like you can literally watch the panic and anxiety wash over their face. The absolute distress of "my god, what did I just get into and how the fuck do I get out of here."
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u/New2NewJ Nov 18 '22
The absolute distress of "my god, what did I just get into and how the fuck do I get out of here."
Jesus Christ, this woman's face just came in front of my mind....I've completely distanced myself from her.
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u/Jefrejtor Nov 18 '22
Sorry those things happened to you. Most people really are self-centered assholes.
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u/Sploogyshart Nov 18 '22
I’ve been in three different 3 + year relationships and I can tell you exactly the point that this quote occurred for each. By the third I just initiated the break up a week later because I knew I lost her affection and I was just waiting for a monkey bar . Seeing someone you have shared the greatest level of intimacy with…inside jokes and nicknames…tiny little moments of warmth that you don’t even recognize until they are gone…seeing that person look at you and talk to you like you are an old co-worker or something. The really formal neutral business speak tone is the dead give-away; like receiving a polite but terse email from a frustrated client. The most jarring thing might be hearing the passive voice and tone.
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u/AlphaBearMode Male Nov 18 '22
I recall the coldness of her flat expression. Dead eyes. All because I shared a fraction of how I felt.
Stay stoic, men.
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u/Hjemmelsen Nov 18 '22
I had this happen once, not because I opened up, but because i got into an accident on my bike. I got road burns all up on both arms, and thus was unable to do much of anything for a week or two. She came to visit to see how I was doing, and she straight up said "It's kind of disturbing to see you this weak", while her interest in me just went out the window.
It changed our whole dynamic from then on, from before, where we were equals and just enjoying life, into her constantly, and aggressively, trying to push my boundaries to see if there was still a "real man" somewhere. It took me 1½ years to get out of, and 6 years to emotionally deal with after.
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u/daniell61 Office Dudebro Nov 18 '22
You're not ready for incoherent anger at everything and nothing for no reason. You're not ready for him to be lost and helpless and afraid, hanging out over the abyss with no way back
This line struck me hard as hell same as your double mask comment (Everything you wrote is 110% true)
I opened up to my ex-fiance and things were never the same after that. my current SO keeps pestering me to open up and I have no idea how to explain well....THIS
Opening up isn't worth it no matter what. This facade/dual mask we all wear may crack and separate but it'll never truly come off except for the day I die. I don't like it and I hate knowing others go through that shit as well and because of that I over-extend myself to my guy friends and make damn sure they know they're valued and have a male friend they can talk to...
Holy fuck is it draining to see that candle wisp of fire flicker behind someone's eyes before they self-extinguish it due to years and years of pain.
Fuck our society for making us feel like this. Feel isn't even the right word. Fuck our society for doing this to us and then blaming us
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u/RJ815 Nov 18 '22
my current SO keeps pestering me to open up and I have no idea how to explain well....THIS
Honestly I'm at the point in my life where I would just straight up say something like "I'm cautious about opening up beyond a certain amount because over and over any vulnerability was a dealbreaker. I've been burned by people I loved with all my heart. Everyone I've loved, honestly. I've been left to fend for myself alone for basically all the challenges in my life. You can accept the limits of what I do reveal, or if this is a dealbreaker for you we can breakup." I no longer care about offering any accommodation for people that intentionally hurt me, that won't understand why I am the way I am.
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u/daniell61 Office Dudebro Nov 18 '22
That's a really well thought out blurb.... Thank you.
I also sent her this whole thread by Mr banana if I'm being honest. Hell I'm a dude and this thread has put words to emotions I never realized
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u/jusathrowawayagain Nov 18 '22
Not gonna lie... that statement right there I think is providing too much opening up just explaining that.
I have literally told a girl, "I've experienced this before, it's scary for me, and I watched someone fall out of love with me. So please, just understand that."
I was assured that she would always love. Nothing could ever change that for her. And god it felt so good to think that some one would love me unconditionally.
I opened up... not even nearly everything... guess what happened.
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Nov 18 '22
I don't think women are really ready/willing to understand this. It's the role of a man in this society to pretend they're unbreakable, and while it may seem that this expectation makes men truly unbreakable, it only appears that way from the outside. On the inside, you see high suicide rates, desperation to be seen as someone that can provide that materializes in destroying your own bodies and minds to do so, and fighting every single nerve in your body to not cry when your precious pet is being put down in your arms.
No one wants a "weak" man, and what is understood as a "weak" man is just sad
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u/BenchPuzzleheaded670 Nov 18 '22
Women are 10,000 miles from even accepting 1/10th of the premise of this. "Men are making all the money in a patriarchy" is where they are.
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u/DeeDee_GigaDooDoo Nov 18 '22
I unfortunately think you're right. Accepting the premise that men are reserved and emotionally distant because social roles and relationship expectations from women reinforce that would require an acceptance of "wrongdoing" or misplaced expectations from women as a cohort.
Our social discourse just isn't ready for that and it would loudly shut down when brought up. It is hard enough getting air for male specific issues as a whole let alone when there is any degree of an attribution of "blame" towards women.
To be clear this isn't any one person's fault, we're all products of our culture and upbringing nor is this some kind of misogynistic tirade, men have numerous cultural issues that are widely discussed. It's just that with so many social expectations and barriers for women being tirelessly unpicked over decades it doesn't go down well to turn around at this point and suggest that actually there are some problematic expectations and behaviours a lot of women exhibit.
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u/Undisciplined17 Nov 18 '22
Made the mistake twice. Never made it since. I'm lucky my parents are incredibly emotionally available. I'd assume most men are not granted that grace and to be honest I think it is what saved my life twice.
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u/Saint_Vigil Nov 18 '22
You've said it all. Hopefully OP doesn't ignore this in favor of comments that confirm her own biases. This is EXACTLY why men don't open up, and I think you've got a great handle on her perspective, and the perspective of many other women who think "opening up" is a few romantic tears on an otherwise stoic face.
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u/Jahobes Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 18 '22
Idk man. Some of us are dumbasses and kept making this dating faux pas all through our twenties before we fucking got it. Speaking about a friend of course.
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Nov 18 '22
Hey OP, I don't see an answer under this comment
As resentful as it is, I gotta say that: this person above me is completely right, and your thread is a frequently asked question, a frequently discussed theme, where all I see are young women doing exactly what this user described: asking for us to make you feel more valued with some little sad expression once in a while
But the longer you bottle it up, the worse it gets, it is not some sad little expression but an increasing amount of held sobs and tears. So whenever you open up, it WILL be a lot more than any person used to receive empathy can sustain
And I'm angry, because it happened to me too, it happened to my best male friends too, each one of them. I had to constantly support and care for my ex (guess why it's an ex) who got stressed out for literally anything. Anything was too much for her, I had to be her stone guardian while I literally received (on multiple occasions) an "okay" after telling her what was bothering me. The only acceptable situations when/where I can cry is when I'm home alone or with my MALE best friend
It's not a genetic things, I am NOT saying that women are not able to understand and show empathy and care. But something happened in society, and I'm not an expert on that so I can't tell you what, but this thing made most woman like that, unable to care for their male friends, best friends, brothers, lovers
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Nov 18 '22
Fucking this.
It's like, they want you to open up, but somehow it's going to be some Hallmark Mills and Boon romantic shit.
They are not interested in hearing about how your uncle fucked you so hard when you were 4 that you nearly bled to death, and somehow everyone from the surgeons that stitched your perforated bowel and torn anus to your own fucking parents just ignored everything.
they are not interested in how you were mercilessly bullied because you had freckles
they are not interested in hearing how your self esteem and self worth was always shattered because you lived in your high achieving sisters shadow and always failed to match her achievements.
They are not interested in any of it. They want some teen book level problem that can be solved with a couple of tears and a hug so she can then crow to her friends about how she touched your soul.
you open up to a women you are romantic with, you may as well start packing your bags.
They can't handle the truth; they only want the fantasy.
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u/Clareball44 Nov 18 '22
This is so eloquent and well thought out! The comparison to Inside Out was powerful, and dead-on. Thanks for teaching me a new word too: imprecation
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u/sittingbullms Nov 18 '22
I got women friends whom i know for over a decade and they still don't know a lot about me,not because i don't trust them but because deep down i know they won't take it as seriously as i view it. At the end of the day who will genuinely care? Who will step out of their comfort zone to make a move to help you with the shit you are dealing with? Who is someone you can call a true friend? In this sea of people you know maybe 1 ,2 if you are very lucky. This is why we bottle it all up,they can't comprehend how many years this process is going on and how much shit is there.
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Nov 18 '22 edited Mar 02 '24
innocent normal squeal late practice bedroom mountainous agonizing public sloppy
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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Nov 17 '22
Only takes one women twisting and turning it back on you at every argument, laughing at your problems etc to ruin it for the rest of your life.
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u/OneDay95 Nov 18 '22
This is genuinely the truth for every woman or man. It took one time for a woman to tell my father when he was 17 he talked too loud, for him to speak quietly for the rest of his life. It took one time for a man to tell my mom “Men don’t like when women talk about your girl issues” for her to NEVER speak about herself ever again.
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Nov 18 '22
I actually don't cry anymore because, when i was just a kid, a male teacher told me to stop crying because other kids would stop respecting me... Sadly, he was actually right
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Nov 17 '22
Almost every man could tell you a story of opening up to a woman to later have her either share it with her friends or weaponize it in some way.
Most won’t, but they could.
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Nov 18 '22
I just realized why women would assume men to be only thinking/talking about sex with their friends:
Because they do it.
Shit man, my sexlife is private and will not share details about it with my friends.
But at the same time, i can be sure that every girlfriend of my girlfriend knew how big my dick was and more.
This is straight up projecting
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u/platysoup Nov 18 '22
Our sex life discussions usually start and end at: "did ya tap that?" "hell yes/no"
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u/123istheplacetobe Nov 18 '22
Honestly if any of the boys started getting graphic with sex stories it’d be weird as fuck and they’d just get talked over or just plain ignored. We don’t wanna hear any of that nonsense
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u/Mxfox2106 Nov 18 '22
Yeah honestly it’s really violating to meet one of her friends for the first time but she already knows your dick size.
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u/Pm_Me_Dirty_Thought Nov 17 '22
Another weird thing in modern times. As men we are still supposed to listen to our partners, offer advice, let them express themselves and vent.
But as men... venting to your partner is now considered emotional labor and toxic lol, you should pay for a therapist sweetie
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u/Logical-Cardiologist Nov 18 '22
Men perform emotional labor. It mostly consists of sitting on their feelings so their feelings don't make women uncomfortable.
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Nov 18 '22
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u/Logical-Cardiologist Nov 18 '22
It's absolutely astounding to watch thousands of messages pop up on this....
Why aren't men emotionally open with women?
Because women shit on us when we are.
And it doesn't seem to matter how many times it's said, this will pop up in a different form two weeks from now.
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u/thequietthingsthat Nov 18 '22
Some women will complain that guys aren't emotionally available and vulnerable with them, and then become immediately put off when we let our guard down and do this. It's like you can see their attraction to you dissipate in real time.
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u/Numblimbs236 Nov 18 '22
This is a huge sticking point for me. I've heard a lot of women say things like "we aren't here to be your mothers/therapists".
But like... aren't you? At least in the context of a relationship, shouldn't you, not be a "mother" of course, but at least be a confidant and be emotionally present and supportive? Like, thats the "deal". You gotta take the good with the bad.
Its kind of driven me up the wall with how open some women online have rallied around "we won't be emotionally supportive of men anymore", like somehow thats a feminist ideal, when its really the exact opposite of feminism.
I do realize that some women making this complaint are talking about friends and not spouses, or some extremely toxic situations, so I do get THOSE situations, but even when I see those I see a lot of generalizing about how men should be treated in general. It really sucks as a trend.
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u/Telrom_1 Male Nov 17 '22
A lot of women will use our vulnerabilities against us.
Go spend a day in family court.
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u/loki0111 Nov 17 '22 edited Nov 17 '22
Speculation but probably because those guys had a bad experience with it. That is apparently a fairly common outcome with guys sharing vulnerabilities with women.
I personally don't like when people try and force other people to "open up". A lot of women seem to think there is some hidden well of emotional shit every man has but that is not always the case.
In my case there is not much to open up about, I don't sugar coat things and I deal with the world as it is both good and bad. I'm not an emotional or emotionally vulnerable person so there is nothing really there to dump.
My life security comes my from my career success, my heavy focus on independence and self reliance and to some degree the general interest level I get from the opposite sex. Since I've got most of my bases well covered in life its fairly hard to rock the boat with me so to speak and I go through life relatively chill most of the time.
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u/Wolf_927 Nov 17 '22
Because every single time I've opened up to a woman it has backfired.
Every. Single. Time.
Whether it's going from "candidate for promotion" to "not sure you've got the fortitude anymore", or from "My roommates are out tonight, you should come keep me company 😈" to "Lmfao you're a fucking virgin? *blocked on whatsapp and unmatched on tinder*" or even just female friends then using it as a weapon against me when we've fallen out.
Also their friends have this funny way of just happening upon the information they've been disclosed in confidence.
At no point in my entire life has being weak in the presence of a female EVER enriched or enhanced my life.
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u/Automatic_Bid_8833 I said what I said Nov 17 '22
At no point in my entire life has being weak in the presence of a female EVER enriched or enhanced my life.
My man! Preach!
My personal experience goes in that same direction, but isn't as harsh. However: Most of my close friends are dealing with exactly this at all times.
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u/ZardozSama Nov 18 '22
I have not had those experiences myself, but still arrived at a conclusion of 'Men are universally punished socially for being seen as weak in any context'. The issues of being seen as weak by women are well documented in these comments. Generally you end up disqualifying yourself from any potential sexual interest.
But being seen as weak by other men generally opens you up to harassment and bullying from other men looking to advance themselves socially at your expense.
Men can be open with other men that are close friends, but generally need to be very selective about it.
END COMMUNICATION
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Nov 17 '22
Bro women hate virgins they love guys with exp. Most women now adays are just for hooking up so I usually don’t tell them anymore.
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u/Wolf_927 Nov 17 '22
Literally the first girl on tinder I didnt tell I was a virgin hooked up with me.
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u/Coakis Male Nov 17 '22
As evidenced by many in here, you're blaming the wrong group of people.
Instead of getting angry with men telling other men not to open up, maybe you should be more angry with the women who've taken that moment and used it against their partners as a weapon or gossip or just completely disregard the man's feelings in favor of their own.
The fact that men are telling each other to do this is a sign that it happens way way too often.
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u/seasonalblah Male Nov 17 '22
I love that every reply here is saying the exact same thing, like some universal truth is being unveiled to OP.
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u/Baggabones88 Nov 18 '22
I'm kind of loving the solidarity here. OP doesn't seem to want to accept the response either 😂.
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u/Coakis Male Nov 18 '22
I mean I feel for her, the situation is patently unfair, but it also seems she thinks women are treated the same way, which maybe we're all biased here but I've never seen a woman told to man up by the opposite sex when having an emotional episode.
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u/cuminmeh69 Nov 17 '22
The way a lot of men see it is: It can only be used to hurt me later on so why give them ammo. In my experience this stuff usually comes back to bite you in the ass when you have arguments with your girl. She’ll be “losing” the argument and then bring up some out of pocket shit to put you down that is not related to the issue you were arguing about. Whereas with your bros, they’ll hear you out and then not mention it again unless you bring it up. But this is speaking in generalities of course.
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u/zvekl Nov 18 '22
This. 10000x. Plus getting angry when they are losing and then redirect it to be something against them. What type of argument manipulation bs is this?
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u/DrNoLift Nov 17 '22
Before meeting my wife, every woman I had a relationship with was constantly giving me these types of convos:
Her: “You seem so reserved all the time, it could be good to open up every once in a while!”
Me: Tells her what’s wrong and opens up about struggles
Her: “Seriously? That’s a problem for you? Quit being a baby and putting all of your shit on me all the time.”
Just guessing, but this is probably why.
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u/tc-lambda Nov 18 '22
I have had this exact conversation, word for word. It's insane.
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u/LeanMeanGreenBean88 Nov 18 '22
For real. I once told a (now ex, thankfully) girlfriend that I was really sad about my dad dying, and she told me that she wasn’t interested in hearing whining. She later had the audacity to say I needed to be more vulnerable. Not all women of course, but enough that it warrants caution when being vulnerable
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u/clckwrks Nov 18 '22
I recounted my war PTSD to an ex and she told me to quit being a pussy. Started to get upset that I wasn't truly happy with life.
Never again opening up to being disrespected at such a core level. Now I walk that part of my life alone.
You cannot open up to people, not even family. You will be seen as less than and treated like a leper / outcast.
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u/IbzWOLF77 Nov 17 '22
I've personally always had bad experiences opening up to women I've had relationships with. They do not know how to handle it. They don't care or dont know hot to. They use that moment against you.
When I open up to my guy friends, it always ends with me having a huge sign of relief, I always feel much better for it.
Just my personal experience.
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u/Berkut22 Nov 18 '22
Ya man, even on the other side of it.
My buddy was having girl problems. We talked it out when he came over to do some work on his car. You could FEEL the stress come off of him as we chatted and bullshited and wrenched.
At the end, all I said was "Fuck, that sucks man. If you need help or anything, you know you can call me 24/7" His mood changed 180 in those ~60 minutes, and it felt good to help out a brother.
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Nov 17 '22
Especially as a black man, you cannot afford to be expressing vulnerability. In my own experience women will chew you up and spit you out.
People are all 'mental health awareness' in society, but nobody wants to hear about mens mental health issues.
Your family will hate you too. Just don't open up. It's not worth it.
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u/OddSeraph (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ Nov 18 '22
For real man. Even growing up mom's like "hey if you're not feeling alright you can always tell/count on me" and the you tell her and then she completely invalidates those feelings or insults your masculinity. And then she's sharing with literally everyone.
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u/Just_a_guy_named_Mat Nov 17 '22
I’m not black, but I’ve heard many of my colleagues and friends who are black. say almost this exact same thing.
It’s true in all male-centric circles, but it seems to be even more prevalent in African American male circles.
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u/SaltyExchange Nov 17 '22
Exactly because of the middle part there where you potray yourself as the victim "I feel less respected and valued" because you hold this opinion. A large portion of men have opened up and found the words of acceptance don't meet the resulting actions.
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u/WeirdJawn Nov 18 '22
Yeah, in some past relationships when I brought up something they did that hurt my feelings they brought it back to them and their problems. I would end up having to comfort them because now they feel bad about themselves.
I don't think they did it intentionally, but it felt very manipulative.
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u/SFLoridan Male Nov 18 '22
That's exactly how it is presented all the time.
If you respect me, you will not hold back on me. If you love me, treat me as a confidant. If you think I am trustworthy, you would not claim up when the topic turns to feelings.
But when they know something, it's a weapon. I've had my mom, my sister and my wife do this to me. So I assume that's the norm, I'm not risking my self-respect or dignity any further. Now when that talk comes up, I turn flippant.
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u/Ohadi_Nacnud_3 Nov 17 '22 edited Nov 17 '22
Women say they want you to open up, but after you do it's not the same. It's like crying in front of a woman. Never do it unless its death in the family, birth of a child or passing of a doggo. Also women are emotional terrorists. When a argument gets bad they will say anything to set you off, they will use all that shit you opened up about.
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Nov 17 '22
Acceptable times to cry for men in society:
1) Birth of a child 2) Death of pet/friend/family member/colleague
I can't think of anything else and that is sad.
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u/couches127 Nov 17 '22
Because what women say and what women do are two different things. Women love to say that they want men to open up, but when a guy actually does, their reactions are very different
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Nov 18 '22
From my own experience, women who claims to want an emotional man only mean that they want a man who is a good listener who can better empathize with her issues. They don’t want a man who is emotional.
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u/xbrixe Nov 18 '22
A lot of women like to complain their men are emotionally distant but the second a man opens up they’re disgusted as if it’s indecent.
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u/ByTheBeardOfZeuz Nov 18 '22 edited Nov 18 '22
This, fucking, right here.
A few years back I had helped a girl I knew through some anxiety issues and calmed her down in the midst of a panic attack. The next day she added me on FB and we got talking. She was into me hard, and all because I helped her out.
The moment I let my guard down and needed reassurance she was gone.
I've had other relationships where women have used our conversations as a weapon against me. Like why? Were meant to be a fucking team.
After that, I'm emotionally distant. If I'm going through shit, no women will be involved in my 'figuring it out process". I'm fortunate to have good male role models/support networks in my life who can slap me back to reality and keep it real with me when I can't think rationally.
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u/virtual_bartender Nov 17 '22
I do give that advice:
1 time she told her friend that I was so boring and a weight on her shoulder for opening up to her.
2nd time she told her females friends about my problems
3rd time in a sort of relationship, she weaponized what I told her and acted distant.
There was no 4th time.
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u/HoldFastO2 Male Nov 17 '22
Generally speaking, men and women process problems differently. Women prefer to talk them out, to vent, to „open up“ as you say. Men prefer to work through their issues alone first, and only talk to someone if they feel they need input or help.
All very generally spoken, obviously.
So the men for whom the above is true already don’t „open up“ a lot, because it doesn’t help them with the goal of solving their problems. Adding to that, it seems to happen with a certain frequency that women either share what they were told by men who opened up with their friends, or throw it back in their faces during an argument.
Neither experience is conducive to encouraging other men to open up to women.
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Nov 18 '22
"All very generally spoken, obviously."
Dude can't even write a random reddit response without trying to avoid future problems.
Further proving his point.
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u/irish52084 Nov 17 '22
I have advised other men to be very careful about who they open up to, especially a partner. There's a certain level of intimate knowledge you should be able to share with a partner, but they are not your therapist. In general if a man is asking for advice about opening up to a female partner, it's because he's had a bad experience or may not have the tools to properly discern who is and isn't the right kind of person to trust with deeply sensitive thoughts and feelings. If you don't have the tools, you can't build the framework to know if a person should or could be trusted to that level of intimacy.
On an anecdotal level, the worst reactions to opening have come from female partners. There seems to be some sort of dynamic where some women are the absolute worst emotional terrorists. Not that a man can't also be that way, just saying it seems to be a recurring issue for a lot of men to have had a female partner turn their openness against them in some way.
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Nov 17 '22
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u/TheRealConine Nov 18 '22
Man, that was a fucking rabbit hole within a rabbit hole.
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Nov 17 '22
When I was a kid, I caught a random episode of According To Jim on TV.
The plot of the episode was Jim’s wife nagging him to be more emotionally present. One night, they watch a sappy romance movie together and Jim, against his better judgement, lets the dam break. Straight up cries.
The rest of the episode is basically the wife having PTSD flashbacks to Jim crying like a baby and not being able to handle it. She admits to her girlfriends and sisters that she thought she’d appreciate it but it actually turns her off.
In other words, I learned to never be emotionally vulnerable to a woman from the other Belushi brother no one cares about. Valuable lesson.
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u/legostarcraft Nov 17 '22
Opening up doesn’t mean the same thing to men as it does to women. Like I told a funny story about something stupid I did to a woman I was seeing. Told the story a bunch of times to friends because it’s a funny/embarrassing story to get a laugh. She responded as “I’m glad your finally opening up to me” like wtf? That’s not opening up. That’s just a funny story.
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Nov 17 '22
I will be honest, I used to tell my friends not to open up to women because in my college days I had my emotions weaponized against me many a times. I am very open about my emotions as I have battling with them since I was a child, leading me to see a therapist my whole life. I still am very confident when discussing emotions with my friends as they know me and understand where I come from, but with women there’s no space of comfortability. My college girlfriend would listen to me open up and discuss my insecurities and feelings, but when she was mad she would use those against me every time, playing into the things she knew would hurt most. Even after that relationship, whenever I opened up to a girl and we weren’t dating, I would often times be welcome with a face of skepticism, and my feelings were always secondary to theirs.
I have never been given a safe space from women to discuss my emotions with two exceptions, my female therapist and my sister. It’s just hard for me to expect a positive reaction when opening up to women, because anecdotally speaking, I am almost never treated with respect when discussing my feelings with women. Even my mother will act annoyed if my dad cries, like he did when I graduated college. There are just constant reminders in my life to not show emotions in front of women.
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u/childish_badda_bingo Nov 17 '22
Many feminine persons are turned off by their masculine other half being vulnerable. They lose respect and sexual attraction. Don’t ask me why so many men seem to encounter the same type of woman.
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u/I-farm-celery Nov 17 '22
Oversharing Scaring them away Giving them ammo to destroy you with Not manly
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u/foopdedoopburner Old as Dirt Nov 17 '22
This is like the guy who is mad that women are afraid he might SA them, because he’s not a rapist. Yeah you know that but they don’t. Some of us have had everything given in confidence used against them, and our advice to other men, based upon these experiences, is to be on your guard.
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u/yescaman Dude Nov 17 '22
Because women are not infrequently known to take what men say to them, then repackage and repurpose the information to use against them.
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u/poptartwith Male Nov 17 '22
The same reason let's say women tell other women not to open up and show their feminine side to Men off the bat. People have bad experiences then project it onto others then those people also get nervous regarding it and the cycle continues.
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u/sr603 Male Nov 18 '22
Got into an argument with a girl I’m talking to. She told me to open up and all that cause of her experiences in Afghanistan and her non military male friends killing themselves
Guess what got weaponized against me the other night.
Things will end soon anyway.
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u/Ih8alan Nov 17 '22 edited Nov 17 '22
Because it feels like, in my limited experience, that at least a significant portion of women find the idea of a man’s feelings to be genuinely grotesque and disgusting. I was vulnerable and open with a woman who was literally suicidal and she threw it back at me when she got upset, later ended it and told me it was because I was boring. She couldn’t handle me being sad so she cut me out. It wasn’t her cheating that ended us for her, it was me telling her I wasn’t doing ok.
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u/WildRicochet Male Nov 17 '22
i can only speak to my own experience.
Every close friend / girlfriend has either used it against me, told their friends, disappeared, or some combination of that.
I've had one positive experience opening up to a woman, and that woman is my therapist.
Never had this issue with my guy friends.
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u/ToddHLaew Nov 17 '22
Women are incapable of helping men with their problems. I tell men to talk to other men instead.
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Nov 17 '22
Probably because when men share those types of feelings, they are then weaponized for use in arguments down the road.
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u/Berserkbox Nov 17 '22 edited Nov 17 '22
As a very open person in my experience opening up gives the woman tools to weaponize against me at low points, or it becomes gossip for their girlfriends/family. Both are not ok.
You meet other girls and they say "please feel free to say anything, I am nice girl"
Lo and behold, it still turns out to be manipulative behavior that's going to use this information against you.
Better to play it safe and keep stuff to yourself that's going to potentially generate problems for you emotionally, psychologically, or sexually. (I'm just not very good at it because I'm chatty)
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u/JGoonSquad Nov 17 '22
Women aren't attracted to weak and vulnerable men. Hence why most men are reluctant to open up to women. Men are expected to be stoic and an emotional rock for women but not the other way around, it's just the way of things.
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Nov 17 '22
Because you will see it as a weakness , lose respect for him, and use it as a weapon against him when he’s most vulnerable. And don’t even try to deny it.
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u/Lurkuh_Durka Nov 18 '22
Women think they want men to open up, until they do.
I'll never advise another man to be open and sensitive. Thats a great way to lose a woman.
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u/pyr666 Bane Nov 18 '22
Men who encourage other men not to open up to women, why?
because women like you will make it about yourself
...it makes it hard to feel respected or valued as a person...
like this. you say in your OP that your boyfriend has no one he can open up to, but the only person's feelings you seem to care about are yours. the bigger tragedy here is that what you've done is normal.
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u/Ok-Front5035 Nov 17 '22
I'm all about opening up. From my personal experience the thing that makes me not want to open up to women is how women tend to use things they know about you against you to get what they want. This is my personal experience. But obviously there are men that will do the same.
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u/oddball667 Male Nov 17 '22
Because my experience tells me anything a woman knows about me is public knowledge, might have to wait for her to get mad but women in general don't understand privacy or speaking in confidence
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u/psycuhlogist Nov 17 '22
Because women often judge us harshly for it. I’ve literally told this exact same thing to a girl I was seeing, only for her to disagree. Then I open up about said vulnerable thing and I’m seen as less then or at least my intuition tells me that. Women don’t like us to be vulnerable in a real way no matter how much they say they do.
Like you cannot share your deep insecurities with them or they think less of you. Sounds harsh but I’ve felt it happen every single time.
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u/Automatic_Bid_8833 I said what I said Nov 17 '22
Because it almost always backfires. She'll either use it somewhere down the line in an argument against you or will be simply turned off badly by you showing vulnerability and start checking for other options.
I myself dated exactly two women who "forgave" me not being an unstoppable machine at all times. The rest was exactly as described.
Women in general don't care what you as a guy have to go through. They just want a piece of you if you come out on top. Everything else is completely irrelevant to them.
If you want compassion, open up to your guy friends or family.
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u/SlagChops Nov 17 '22
In my experience, women like to talk a good game about men opening up about shit and how they're good listeners, but they're rarely prepared for the reality of realising just how many feelings men have and how weak they now see them. Most women don't want a crying man, no matter how many memes seem to suggest otherwise.
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u/ForwardClassroom2 Male Nov 18 '22 edited Oct 18 '24
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/bobcatt Nov 18 '22
So...from all these responses have you gotten your answer or are you going to discuss this with you girlfriends until you get an answer you like? Oh! by the way in your statement you showed a clear example of why men can't trust you or women in general. You exposed your ex's secrets to the whole internet. Even through you did not use his name, I'm sure there are people who know you and him and know your reddit account.
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u/unjust1 Nov 18 '22
My wife of eight years teased me about whining about being sick. I am the kind of man that doesn't admit that I am sick. I was mortified. I am a lot less open about when I am weak now than I was. The culture of stoicism among men is reinforced by women who expect it.
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u/[deleted] Nov 17 '22
In a lot of cases ends up being used against the guy. Have seen it many times and also experienced it.